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Present Synopsis
Content material Individuals is a podcast about being leaders, entrepreneurs and creators in a world that wishes to paint contained in the strains. Be part of us and learn how to interrupt the foundations in all the very best methods.
Episode #2 Abstract
In our chat with Atoosa Rubenstein, we discover how burnout can creep into even essentially the most spectacular profession — and the way authenticity, self-care and actual artwork can save the day. We additionally get among the most fun tales from Atoosa’s time as an editor-in-chief — a peek behind the scenes of a inventive thoughts — and find out how she endeavored to assist folks through the use of her work.
Content material Individuals: Burnout, Meditation and How To Select Your self
A few of immediately’s finest Content material Individuals can hint their inventive inspiration again to Atoosa Rubenstein. At simply 26 years outdated, Atoosa was editor-in-chief of “CosmoGirl and “Seventeen.” With out her, plenty of the storytellers we take pleasure in immediately would possibly by no means have embraced their pure skills.
And the place did all that inspiration come from, you ask? Easy: her letters from the editor. Open, weak and stuffed with the sort of honesty that makes content material come to life, these letters kick-started numerous spectacular careers — together with Atoosa’s.
Although she’s now not editor-in-chief, Atoosa remains to be telling tales that matter. She’s fearless, guys. And the way in which she explores delicate matters — it’s one thing all content material creators can be taught from. Atoosa even offers us her secret to avoiding a creator’s worst enemy: burnout. Pay attention alongside as we uncover how her private journey helped illuminate self-care options (like journaling) that simply make sense:
View on Zencastr
However don’t fear — this isn’t all about work and burnout. We additionally speak about expertise. And associates who backstab you at camp. And brushing your emotional tooth. Oh, and content material creation, after all.
Thanks for stopping by. And don’t neglect to take a web page from Atoosa’s e-book and inform us the uncooked, sincere fact in regards to the podcast.
Extra Content material for Content material Individuals
Atoosa Unedited: Subscribe to Atoosa’s e-newsletter for a weekly dose of inspiration and honesty.
Atoosa’s TEDx Discuss: Watch “Leaving It All to Have It All.”
Donald Robertson: Try @drawbertson on Instagram.
Julia Cameron: Strive Morning Pages to filter out the ol’ pipes.
Brafton: Go to Atoosa’s (self-proclaimed) new finest associates for extra data and free content material.
Podcast Transcript:
Meredith Farley:
Hello everybody. Welcome to Content material Individuals, a podcast the place we discuss to good folks about inventive work, inventive management, and their profession journeys. This podcast is produced by Brafton. Brafton is a content material advertising and marketing firm powered by a world workforce of inventive professionals and advertising and marketing consultants.
My title is Meredith Farley. I’m the COO at Brafton. I oversee our inventive manufacturing and repair groups, and I’m right here with Ian Servin. Hey, Ian.
Ian Servin:
Hey everyone.
Meredith:
Ian’s our inventive director of video who’s producing this podcast. Thanks very a lot for doing that, Ian.
Ian:
Completely. And I believe now we have a extremely thrilling episode with Atoosa.I learn the slate profile that was about her kind of return and I can’t imagine we acquired her on the present.
Meredith:
I do know I’m like over the moon. So for these of you who don’t know, Atoosa Rubenstein is the previous editor-in-Chief of Seventeen Journal and the founding editor of Cosmo Lady. She was tremendous younger when she did all of that. I believe she was 26 or at 26, she grew to become the youngest journal editor in chief at Hearst over their 100 12 months historical past. After which she went on and did actually cool stuff. Like she govt produced a MTV sequence, Miss Seventeen, and now Atoosa has not too long ago launched her personal Substack, it’s Atoosa Unedited.
For these of you who knew or have been acquainted with Atoosa earlier than, she used to write down these actually weak, sincere, extremely compelling letters from the editor. And I believe that actually resonated with so many pre-teen and teenage ladies who have been studying these magazines and so they felt like they knew her. And I really feel like this Substack that she’s engaged on is like the brand new model of that.
She was so superior to speak to and yeah, like what did you concentrate on the dialog?
Ian:
I believed it was actually nice. I imply, she not solely has this actually superior background, proper? She achieved a lot, however she additionally skilled burnout and that comes with a extremely compressed kind of preliminary begin to her profession.
And so she discovered a lot from that, however she was additionally working, you understand, on the highest ranges of those magazines. And so she additionally discovered loads about what really makes actually good content material. I believe her factors about shallow versus deep content material and what it takes to provide deep content material. I believe these are nice classes, not only for folks working at magazines or, or, you understand, digital websites, however you understand, any content material marketer can actually take these to coronary heart.
Meredith:
Yeah. No, I, I completely agree. And so the Slate profile Ian talked about, we’ll put the hyperlink to that within the bio and we are able to additionally put the hyperlink to her Substack as nicely. It was, I believe the slate profile was perhaps final January or round then. I believe that’s proper. It sort of introduced, so Atoosa when she was 35, she retired. I believe that’s kinda the burnout you’re speaking round too, Ian.
She was like, I’m achieved. And he or she sort of left the general public eye and the Substack is her sort of step again right into a extra public determine place. I liked that after we acquired to speak to Atoosa about TikTok. It’s so fascinating to get her perspective on how modern-day algorithms, the online search and Google relevance has completely influenced the way in which that we plan content material. And I believed she had actually very considerate insights and was actually open and sincere with us about plenty of issues.
So I believed it was such a enjoyable dialog. I actually hope that you simply guys all take pleasure in it and you understand, we’re simply beginning out on our Content material Individuals podcast journey and hope you stick to us and that you simply take pleasure in our convo with Atoosa.
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Meredith:
Hello Atoosa. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of Content material Individuals. I’m actually excited to have you ever on. You meant loads to me rising up. I used to be a Cosmo lady, and Seventeen subscriber.
Atoosa Rubenstein:
I like that. Thanks.
Meredith:
I used to be born in New York Metropolis, however we moved to upstate New York once I was about 5 and studying the, you understand, getting the magazines, like studying your notes, it felt like unspeakably, unspeakably, like glamorous to me.
Atoosa:
Mm-hmm.
Meredith:
…it was the glimpse of the life that I used to be you understand, seeing by means of the pages, but in addition your you understand, your, your letters each month have been so inspiring and felt very actual. And I do know it wasn’t simply me, it was my associates too. We’d get them, we might preserve the magazines and have them round and I believe the Slate article about you final 12 months, towards the tip of final 12 months actually sort of introduced you again into my consciousness a bit. And I, I mirrored a bit and I believed, man, I don’t assume I’d completely consciously clocked how a lot you had influenced my ideas on profession and love of content material and the considered being an editor.
And so whenever you began your Substack, I used to be tremendous thrilled and I’ve liked having Atoosa content material again in my life.
Atoosa:
Aw, that’s so candy. Thanks.
Meredith:
So thanks a lot. And I really feel like there’s such a really actual Atoosa impact. I’m not alone in being of the era of ladies that you simply impacted and influenced, like, why do you assume you encourage a lot devotion and fandom amongst your readers? As a result of that’s such an actual factor.
Atoosa:
That’s so candy. I imply, I can’t consider it inside that context however I can’t deny that there’s an Instagram web site that’s common referred to as Thanks Atoosa proper? It’s not referred to as Thanks Valerie. Or Thanks Anne Marie, or Thanks. You understand, someone else who was an editor on the time.
Thanks Anne.
I believe that I used to be in all probability the primary particular person to virtually carry this, like, virtually like actuality, like we grew to become, we grew to become acquainted in time with actuality tv, however I kind of introduced this dose of actuality to the journal area. As a result of for me too, it was a dream come true.
You understand? And that was, that was the context. For me of that life. Like I, you understand, there are some people who find themselves at all times going for the Gold Star and so they’re like, I’m gonna be an editor in chief and blah, blah, blah. For me, it had simply extra of a fantastical, magical high quality to it from, from each, from the get-go as a reader studying the magazines, I too thought that they have been, they have been, they have been a really particular, magical portal into one other world.
For me that was a preferable world than the world that I used to be rising up in. After which additionally all through the method, you understand, there wasn’t a second that I wasn’t sort of having an outer physique expertise like that is, fucking cool. Like, you understand, even when my bosses would ask me to do issues like get my dry cleansing, I used to be like, rattling, straight I’m getting your dry cleansing. Trigger you’re the very best. You understand? And so I had that enthusiasm and I believe that I communicated that enthusiasm once I grew to become an editor-in-chief to the ladies in a sort of an actual method, versus pretending to be a grownup, as a result of I used to be additionally 26. You understand, the opposite editors in chief have been the age I’m immediately, they have been actual grownups with households and this and that, and I used to be similar to, felt nonetheless like Cinderella on the ball and that that vitality was in all probability contagious.
Meredith:
Yeah. Gosh, that makes a lot sense as a result of as you’re speaking, I’m considering you, nicely, what you say about actuality television, sort of beginning across the identical time like perhaps everybody was sort of like beginning to perhaps, nicely it’s humorous, I don’t wanna say actuality TV is authenticity, however the concept of like, yeah, we wished one thing extra actual and like a peek behind the scenes.
And also you, you have been a lot, you have been so that you, we might really feel your enthusiasm. And to your level, it was, you understand, it wasn’t like tremendous curated already residing and feeling a part of, and taking as a right just like the, the superior life-style of like actually, you understand, individuals who’d been doing the job for 30 years. Like that, that realness got here by means of.
Atoosa:
I don’t even assume they shared their life-style, you understand, like once I was a trend editor. So previous to your, me being kind of in your ether I bear in mind they’d put me in trend tales That was very uncommon. As we speak, whenever you look behind Individuals Journal, you typically see Andrea who’s like, I believe the wonder director, like all of these ladies giving their favourite merchandise, their favourite garments, their concepts.
That shit wasn’t occurring again then. So in just like the late nineties when Cosmo was kinda placing me of their trend tales and naming me, that additionally helped sort of construct my star and my mystique even inside the business. You understand, so just like the sort of the making of the it lady, and also you wanna know who really began that entire factor with me is, are you aware the artist Donald Robertson? He’s very massive on Instagram.
Meredith:
No, however…
Atoosa:
He’s like big. I believe they name, it’s like Donald Drawbertson is his Instagram title, however he, on the time, he’s big now, was the inventive director of Politico. And he similar to, sort of noticed me someday and was like, you, and he likes to say he found me within the trend closet.
However he did, he put me in entrance of the digital camera after which from there, you understand, the whole lot took off.
Meredith:
Wow. We are able to look him up and throw his Instagram within the present notes. That’s actually cool. I believe, I imply, and likewise I do know in, in your communications and letters to the readers, you might be, you have been so weak and it felt very, you understand, you shared like, that you simply confirmed footage, such as you have been like, I’m not the proper, like just like the glamorous particular person we noticed wasn’t your historical past and also you have been so sharing about that. And I believe it helped folks really feel linked to you and in your Substack. I really feel such as you’ve been so, what feels to me like so uncooked in a method that’s very beneficiant. I’m curious again then and now, do you ever really feel nervous or uncertain earlier than you hit ship?
Atoosa:
Yeah. Like, you understand, again then whenever you have been youthful and I used to be youthful you understand, I definitely had consciousness of issues in my life that I wasn’t sharing, proper? Whether or not it was incest from my childhood or the adultery frankly, that I used to be experiencing as an editor in chief.
However I wasn’t able to share it. And it additionally I don’t know that the incest would’ve been above everyone, the, the viewers’s head, nevertheless it was loads. And I’m unsure that that’s at that age. I don’t know that it could’ve, it was, it was definitely, I used to be not able to share any of it. And so what feels so lovely and kind of like a lot organicity to it’s that now that you’re older and you’ll hear my fact I may share it.
You understand, I each have the kind of emotional musculature to share it and you’ve got the emotional musculature to obtain it and, and, and hopefully share again inside the neighborhood. However no, nothing’s ever been onerous. Issues have been sticky. Like, like a shaggy dog story I’ll inform you from whenever you have been a teen.
I bear in mind like certainly one of our first problems with Cosmo lady, I wrote about how this good friend of mine completely backstabbed me and I’m going into element and my children, I’ve now a teen and 9 12 months olds, and so they love this story of how this lady simply completely screwed me over at camp. She was my finest good friend and I wrote it within the factor and actually, Just like the week earlier than the difficulty got here out, this lady reaches out to me after many, many, a few years. I imply, we have been 12 years outdated final time I talked to her saying, you have been my finest good friend. You have been this, you have been that. I used to be like, oh shit this story would possibly really feel acquainted to you. I by no means heard from her once more.
I nonetheless consider her and I nonetheless hope to someday reconnect. However now that, anyway, so sure. No, I by no means, and in reality, subsequent week, I imply now that we’re, you understand, we’re speaking about Rob, Rob Wade, and that’s so, a lot within the information. You understand, there’s like, I, I did terminate a being pregnant whereas I used to be working and I used to be pregnant in one of the vital well-known footage of. Like those that’s like throughout like that, it’s sort of like one of many footage folks use after they’re writing about me and I used to be pregnant and with a child that, you understand, I didn’t take the time period. And so in sort of like excited about that now, like that’s a extremely dicey topic, proper? No one is aware of this.
Actually no one is aware of aside from my finest, finest good friend, one good friend. So I don’t really feel scared, however I undoubtedly wanna do the story justice.
Meredith:
Yeah. Is it one thing that you simply really feel like you have an interest to discover like by means of your Substack, by means of your communication?
Atoosa:
Yeah. Yeah. I’ll write about it on this week’s Substack. So Sunday my, my, on this second, my expectation is it will likely be on that matter, it will likely be sort of about that image and perhaps what was happening for me. And, and simply to sort of discover, you understand, the significance of alternative and likewise the place for grief in our society typically. So, you understand, for me it’s at all times like, it’s not fairly, so it at all times goes on a bit of little bit of a path. Emotionally, I haven’t explored it but, however after we get off, that’s what I’ll be doing.
Meredith:
Wow. Yeah. Nicely I believe that it’s, it’s fascinating what you say about sort of, you understand, perhaps folks my age who’re older now and sort of come together with you and are extra in a spot to obtain these tales and the reality of your expertise there. I really feel prefer it’s actually significant and cathartic in plenty of methods for lots of various folks to listen to you be so sincere about these. Troublesome and painful, however very actual and never singular experiences in some methods.
Atoosa:
I do really feel like a part of, you understand, one of many points with this specific matter is everyone desires to assist the rights, you understand, however no one sort of desires to say, Hey, I had this occurred to me and right here’s why. And I really feel prefer it’s inside the private tales and, and you understand you understand, how, how might somebody like me get right into a place like that?
Like I used to be very profitable. I used to be good. It wasn’t like I used to be a teenage lady who didn’t know any higher, however like, whenever you sort of take the historical past of abuse and you understand, the totally different ways in which I used to be anesthetizing myself and, you understand, what would my, you understand, simply the numerous issues that might’ve been impacted had I saved that being pregnant.
I imply, I simply assume it’s, I believe it’s an advanced subject and I believe if we are able to all share our complexities with one another as a society typically, not simply on this matter, on all matters you understand, there’s, there’s simply, I believe there might be a lot extra simply compassion for one another and acceptance and, and I hope, you understand, peace and freedom inside that.
Meredith:
Yeah, completely. And I believe one factor I actually admire about plenty of what you’ve been writing and placing out there’s that. , you’re not you understand, it’s, it’s not black and white. It’s, you’re not creating heroes and villains of your historical past or the experiences that you simply had. You’re being extremely sincere about what you are feeling was like your, you understand, I don’t know, phrase I’m in search of, however sort of your function in your private historical past but in addition actually in an inspiring method, speaking too about how you might be sort of embracing self-love and compassion for the whole lot that you simply survived and went by means of. And I believe it’s such a, I discover it therapeutic to learn a few of these issues myself simply because it’s very. . I, I believe so typically, nicely, I don’t wanna say so typically, no, however like traditionally as a tradition we’ve handled, or a society, we are inclined to deal with issues as so black and white.. you understand, I used to be incorrect right here, they have been incorrect there, et cetera. And you actually carry compassion, love, and acceptance of ambiguity to plenty of matters in, in a, a extremely considerate method.
Is that one thing you do consciously?
Atoosa:
I imagine that, I imply, you understand how many individuals, like when you concentrate on the way in which companions combat, you understand, whether or not they’re married or simply in a relationship, there’s at all times like, someone like desires to win, like someone has to win. And actually we’re all proper as a result of we’re bringing to the desk all of our woundings, nonetheless massive or small. And if we are able to make area for all of our respective woundings I believe we are able to simply have compassion and. And respect for one, each other. And I really feel like that’s simply what I’ve discovered. You understand, I’m 50 years outdated, I’ve gone by means of my share of life and there’s loads extra forward and never simply, what I’ve discovered is that the whole lot is advanced.
You understand, there aren’t any heroes and villains, you understand, once I speak about my perpetrator for, you understand, for the incest that I survive, like I’ve a lot compassion for him. Trigger who does that? You understand, solely someone who’s very, very damage and you understand, can also be a sufferer of the ancestral household. Woundings, you understand, we’re all, we’re all survivors of our woundings and if we are able to simply sort of make area for these, the tenderness. Not simply our personal, not solely kind of armoring to guard our tenderness, however, however to have sort of reverence for one another’s tenderness.
I assume it isn’t, I’m not doing it. I by no means do something to show, like I don’t see myself as a instructor, however, you understand, it’s undoubtedly one thing I’ve discovered. So, you understand, I’m undoubtedly modeling it. I undoubtedly mannequin it.
Meredith:
Yeah. One factor, and I really feel like I’m taking place a barely totally different line of questioning than I’d initially had, however I’m actually interested by is that one factor I really feel like each in skilled environments and in private life, can, I believe, be tough to navigate is empathy, understanding, and compassion for why somebody did what they did, but in addition the suitable quantity of like boundaries and useful anger for your self. What’s your method to that?
Atoosa:
Nicely, I believe a very powerful factor is simply mindfulness. Like whenever you’re in your physique You understand, you may navigate each by way of your individual woundings and what your consolation degree is, which is like, you understand, the wholesome boundaries that you simply’re speaking about too. But in addition simply be current with what’s over there. I believe plenty of occasions after we’re not current, which most individuals sadly aren’t, as a result of as a tradition, we’re very uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. And in some methods we’re uncomfortable being uncomfortable emotionally, however we’re very snug being uncomfortable.
Like with the exterior piece, like which means we’re taught at a younger age. You go to high school, no one fucking likes college, proper? However you need to sit there and like, oh, you need to do your work though you don’t wanna do homework. Like at a younger age, you’re kinda taught to disregard your individual limits in some methods. And but however, however don’t talk your damage. You understand, don’t talk your discomfort. So we simply get all of those actually combined indicators as younger those who I believe is essential to t simply kind of detangle as we grow old. And for me, you understand, there’s no magic bullet in each state of affairs. First do that, then do this.
However for me, what has been a large sport changer is meditation. And other people say, oh, I meditate. However what they imply is I meditate. Like typically , you understand, like I’ve tried it. I attempt to, however meditation as a each day observe has fully altered how I present up in each state of affairs in my life. Can I offer you an instance?
Meredith:
Sure!
Atoosa:
So Final weekend I did this TED discuss, proper? TEDx discuss, and earlier than the entire shebang began. The entire forged, which means all of the audio system are on stage, they’re like, so there’s a finale track and we’re all gonna, it’s like track about pleasure and we’re all gonna sing the track. We’re clapping and we’re holding fingers. Now you and I don’t know one another that nicely. That sounds just like the, my greatest nightmare come true. Okay. I’m like horrified, like, I’m like, I nonetheless have part of me that, you understand, like has to have like a bit of little bit of a cool, you understand, so like this concept of being like, yeah, pleasure, you understand, blah, blah, blah. Like on stage, like, I dunno, like, and I mentioned, and so I used to be on this place as soon as. Years in the past at a Deliberate Parenthood factor I used to be getting an award at, and Natalie Service provider, who’s certainly one of my all-time heroes, pulls me on stage to sing with the remainder of the honorees. And I used to be like holding her hand nonetheless considering, can I die proper now?
It was like, the worst. I’ve PTSD from it. And so I pulled them apart and I used to be very happy with myself. I used to be like, so I’m not gonna be doing this. And so they have been like, and I didn’t take a imply method. And so they have been similar to, however everybody’s doing it, together with just like the superstar and everybody’s doing it. I’m like, that’s nice for everybody. I’m not doing this as a result of I don’t really feel snug. And like they only have been like, and I used to be like, I simply needed to sit with that. I used to be like, that’s it. Then so I used to be feeling very happy with myself after which I. Heard one of many different audio system and he was a refugee. And he was speaking about being othered, you understand, that when he was in Africa he was othered trigger he was homosexual.
When he got here right here inside the homosexual neighborhood, he was othered. Trigger he’s a refugee inside the refugee neighborhood. He’s othered trigger he’s homosexual inside the black neighborhood. He’s othered as a result of he’s African. You understand, like all of different, and I spotted like, holy shit. Reason for the meditation observe, due to my kind of embodiment as I’m listening to him communicate, I mentioned, oh, I actually relate to this concept of different, I’ve at all times associated to it.
I’m othering myself by not being a part of this neighborhood on the finish. Wow. It’s like, I’m so scared. Of not becoming in and never being that sort of like Lucy goosey joyful particular person, cuz I nonetheless am like a bit of fashiony inside that’s not, that’s like the other kinda vibe. Yeah. And I mentioned, I’m othering myself.
And so my first thought was, okay, subsequent time I’ll make a distinct alternative. However once more, I’m nonetheless current. I’m embodied, I’m staying with myself. And I used to be like, nicely, the chance is that this time. That is the following time. And so I discovered the lady at proper earlier than the finale, and I used to be like, I’m sorry, I, I actually sat with it and I’ve modified my thoughts.I’m gonna do it now. The story isn’t, I did it and my gosh, I’m happening tour now. I’m becoming a member of a gospel choir. That is my future. No, I used to be un, I used to be uncomfortable, however I felt snug within the step I used to be taking up behalf of myself and my very own progress and never othering myself as a result of I’ve been othered or trigger I felt othered, not like permitting this trauma from my previous to only be shifted a bit of bit and for me to have a bit of management over it versus it having management over me.
And in order that’s like a really totally different story than what you might be asking me about, nevertheless it what it’s, the connection is embodiment. And after we may be as embodied as attainable, and that’s not at all times simple. You understand then we are able to actually each maintain our boundaries in a wholesome method and still have compassion and empathy for whomever we’re in neighborhood with and present up for them.
And I really imagine meditation is the magic bullet.
Meredith:
I like that story. Thanks a lot for sharing it. And I like too that it’s like, it’s a two step course of the place first you’re, I believe you’re, you’re in your physique. You’re like, what are my boundaries? I’m not gonna drive myself to, I might really feel the identical. I’d be like, please God, something to not do this. And then you definately like, sit with it additional and dig deeper and actually hear after which sort of really, you understand, step out of these boundaries a bit of bit. That’s, I imply, it’s lovely
Atoosa:
I’m certain you’ve heard of IFS, prefer it’s a sort of remedy, Inside household programs. It’s gotten highly regarded now, nevertheless it’s just like the sort of remedy I’ve at all times achieved, like once I was working as nicely. And so, you understand, principally, trigger I went by means of it with my therapist afterward and, and the way in which he sort of broke it down was like, first I advocated for my younger half that was afraid. And by advocating for that younger half, I sort of was like, it’s okay, Atoosa. Like I acquired you. After which like a extra grownup half was capable of come out and sort of hear him, hear the man that was talking about, about his othering. After which an older half was capable of then advocate for, you understand, the kind of the place that I wanna be heading towards, which isn’t essentially being led by my wounded components.
And in the end that’s, that occurs a lot on the workplace, proper? Like, I imply, folks simply step on our wounded components after which we’re similar to, it, you understand, turns into these things that’s simply you understand, my wounding versus your wounding. And, and I do assume that I believe that for me, meditation, like I, I didn’t meditate once I was working in any respect. This meditation observe is sort of new. It’s like inside the previous six months. And it’s been a sport changer.
Meredith:
So yeah. I imply, the interior little one work, I completely agree. I, I attempt to do a little bit of it and I, I agree with you that our interior youngsters are, you understand, I believe there’s like authority figures, constructions, bosses, and people parental archetypes set off us so simply. And I’ve discovered that to be useful too. So, so what sort of meditation do you do? Is it transcendental or guided?
Atoosa:
I attempted that. I attempted the whole lot. Like I did that, such as you paid $1,200 and also you get your mantra. And by the way in which, virtually yeah, virtually everyone I’ve ever met, like, who’s been naughty sufficient like me to share their mantra and have the identical mantra as me. I don’t wanna, shit, I don’t wanna shit on it. As a result of it really works for lots of people. For no matter cause, it didn’t work for me. So I, it’s, I’m extra in like a kind of mindfulness based mostly, so like Tara Brach, like Jack Kornfield, Jack Kornfield is like my North Star. So, you understand, each day, like immediately I did it, it might be other ways. Like I, I’d do like. 30 minute guided meditation with Jack from his web site. As we speak there was a selected one I wished to do, nevertheless it was solely 11 minutes. So then I sat a further 20 minutes in silence. However a very powerful factor to me is it’s like this little tweak.
Lots of people speak about the way you get, simply gotta make room for it. Such as you’re doing one thing like consuming your broccoli whenever you hate broccoli. And for me, I do it constantly each day as a result of it feels so good. I don’t imply afterward throughout it, all of it, it feels virtually like a orgasmic expertise of simply being free within myself. It, there sort of isn’t a greater a part of my day.
I imply, I like seeing my youngsters, however on a egocentric degree, like that point within me with simply full freedom and no tethers to anyone it’s a present that I give myself each day. And, and when you, if we are able to simply see it as that it’s a therapeutic massage, it’s not broccoli.
It’s like brushing your tooth to your within you, you understand, such as you would by no means not brush your tooth. If I even take a look at my children with out brushing my tooth within the morning, they’re like, get outta my face. So like, that’s like the very first thing I do is clearly brush my tooth after which the very first thing I do for my interior life is meditate.
Meredith: I meditate as nicely. I’ve solely up to now few months gotten like, actually into it. I preserve a tracker and I simply give myself a bit of test mark for the day. I discover satisfaction there and I’ve additionally discovered it actually transformative, however you’re inspiring me to be much more disciplined about it. I do know you additionally do your morning pages, proper?
Atoosa:
You understand, I’ve really taken a break from the morning pages, as a result of there’s solely a lot you are able to do. And I really feel like as my meditation observe has gotten deeper I haven’t had the area to do the morning pages. However I discover that the morning pages are actually useful for me and spurts of time, like when I’ve loads happening. As a result of it simply is like an emptying of the pipes, you understand? And I simply really feel like proper now I don’t want them.
Like I bear in mind there was a time that I had discovered my husband had cheated on me. I occurred to have been doing, that is years and years in the past to, to over 10 years in the past, 12 years in the past. And I occurred to be doing morning pages on the time. Oh my God. It was so useful once I’ve gone by means of breakups. Oh my God. So useful. Now what I do is I simply have my morning web page’s pocket book round and every time I really feel one thing’s clogging the pipes. I’ll similar to pull it out and simply begin doing it spontaneously.
Meredith:
Wow. Yeah, I imply, it’s an ideal instrument and for anybody listening who doesn’t know, it’s, I believe it’s Julia Cameron who wrote The Artist Approach. She’s an enormous proponent of three lengthy hand pages very first thing. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that’s the e-book. Atoosa is holding up the e-book. . It’s an superior, an superior instrument, and perhaps we are able to hyperlink to it within the present notes for anybody who’s Oh, yeah, certain. What we’re speaking about.
Atoosa:
And he or she additionally does, you understand, I did a 16 week workshop along with her and she or he does these on-line now, and that’s additionally actually one thing as a result of sure, after all it’s very simple to do these pages your self each morning, however to do it along with her. And he or she, she’s an actual fascinating, eccentric character. She’s going to educate different various things and all the issues I discovered from her are like little instruments that I simply pull outta my toolkit once I want them. And so they’re simply great.
Meredith: Oh my gosh, I’m gonna test that out. I actually like Russell Model’s podcast and she or he was a visitor on it. And yeah, I’ve listened to that episode like three or 4 occasions. She additionally actually advocates for happening walks, like the concept you take heed to podcast or music, you’re sort of transporting your self to the artist consciousness and it is advisable to stick with your individual self. Sure. Which I discovered so superior at occasions and likewise terrible at different occasions. I’m like, I wanna be wherever however hanging out with simply myself?
Atoosa:
We used to do this. She referred to as it the artist’s stroll. However you understand, now how I’ve reworked that, like once more, understanding that she gave me this nice toolkit after which I sort of make it my very own. Like now with the artist pages, typically I’ll do ’em within the morning, different occasions, like I can pull out my pocket book and present you that too, it’s all proper right here, however I’m going for a stroll with my finest good friend David virtually each day. And that stroll, he’s a chaplain. So, you understand, we discuss in regards to the sort of issues that you simply and I are speaking about now at, at size and in depth, but in addition it’s about awe, you understand, like seeing Central Park in its totally different colours and its totally different levels, seeing folks.
And so we actually are sort of current with what we see and, and to have the ability to share that with one another is simply so lovely.
Meredith:
Wow. I’m discovering your observe as very inspiring
Atoosa:
You understand, as a result of plenty of occasions folks your age, and I used to be like this as nicely you set your output earlier than your enter. Proper? And so you have got a giant job and you need to carry out at that job. And, and that’s tied up into additionally your individual shallowness, proper? And, then you slot in your enter. When you may. And what I’ve discovered now as a 50 12 months outdated is the enter, which means the issues we do to nourish ourselves should come first after which do now we have time for X, Y, Z?
As a result of what I discovered having been, you understand, once I was a youthful your age and, and out on this planet profession clever, I bear in mind considering. Individuals could be so shocked that I used to be very profitable. Like I had a lot output. I’d be like, I’m main a present on mtv and I used to be consistently output, output, output.
And, and, and I simply would take a look at different editors in chief in any respect magazines. I’d be like, why are you not as prolific? Nicely, as a result of they valued their lives, you understand, and their careers in the end ended up being far longer than mine as a result of I fully burnt out. And so, you understand, I, I don’t know what their practices have been, so I’m not essentially speaking about them per se, however only for me, what I worth now could be my wellbeing and my wellbeing, my associates, I should be in nature and I must have like a big relationship with my inner life, which meditation offers me. And so these three issues should occur. And in the event that they don’t occur, then I can’t write my Substack, I can’t even decide to lunch with someone. That could be an ideal alternative or no matter.
In order that’s simply, you understand, it’s one thing to consider. And I, and I even put socializing outdoors of finest associates within the class of output as a result of going to social occasions is so draining. I acquired invited to one thing this Friday by a really sort of well-known particular person in New York, and she or he was like, oh, this particular person and that particular person, you understand, it’ll be so good so that you can be on this, you understand, and, and you understand, sure, it could be, you understand, I’ll be within the New York Submit if I’m going to that, you understand, like they’ll, that’ll, that’s what’s gonna occur in a great way.Hopefully not in a nasty method. And trigger I’ve been within the publish in a nasty method too, however I’m going by means of a divorce proper now and so I’ve plenty of my emotions are very sort of tender and I don’t have time in my Friday to do this. I’ve to do my self care. So, and you understand, I say that once I say no and folks, you understand, it’s a bit of bizarre.
Individuals assume it’s a bit of bizarre once I say issues like that. However, you understand, it retains me on level with what’s essential to me.
Meredith:
Yeah. I believe it’s so fascinating was whenever you say that, it’s like, oh my God, I can think about, I imply, I’m not being invited to these names, however I can think about the placing all of those you understand, marquee names and PR alternatives, they really feel so big. And so selecting your self over them, like I think about making a behavior of that, you be taught that you’re extra essential than all, even all of these issues that different, that, nicely, the interior little one,
Atoosa:
Proper. The interior little one is aware of. She’s scared proper now. She has plenty of emotions of worry due to the transitions and like, we’re not gonna make her go, you understand, like perhaps we made her go to high school for all these years and we made her go to, you understand, piano observe when you didn’t wish to, however we’re not gonna do this anymore.
Meredith:
Wow. Nicely, I sort of, I wanna transition a bit of bit in step with what you’re speaking on about burnout. I believe plenty of ladies my age, I’m 35, are having a little bit of a rethink about how they method work and life in step with what you’re speaking about. And for me, gen Z, this youthful era, like barely questioning and rebelling towards the stuff you talked about. Hustle tradition, the lady boss ethos… it’s fascinating. It’s pushing boundaries and views for me, and I’m actually, how do you assume ladies’s views on work are altering now? And I do know that that was considerably, I you understand, the lady, the idea of lady boss and hustle tradition.
I do know a few of what you touched in your Ted discuss a bit of bit too. I’m actually to get your ideas and perspective on what’s occurring proper now.
Atoosa:
I believe that that’s, that was precisely the, you understand, that was, I, I skilled this, you understand, I left my profession on the top as a result of it was fully untenable to me. And I not too long ago reconnected with my therapist from again then and, and it had been a few years and, and I’d virtually forgotten how dangerous it felt inside. After which once I talked to him, he remembered and he was similar to, do you bear in mind, like, you didn’t even, you felt uncomfortable whenever you have been outdoors and like strolling to an appointment trigger you felt like you weren’t being productive. Such as you felt such as you’d get in hassle. Like you weren’t, you understand, prefer it was virtually like he, I imply he referred to as it agoraphobia and cuz I used to be stuffed with a lot worry once I wasn’t like doing output and like sort of creating one thing.
And yeah, I imply I believe that what I hear, and you understand, I’m in contrast to you, I’m not within the, you understand, in a company tradition, to be witnessing it firsthand. I can perceive that the sort of hustle tradition that I used to be, one of many like OGs of, you understand, of similar to we work across the clock, you are able to do it, you may be something you wanna be at what value, you understand, actually by no means actually addressed at what value. Proper? I left so as to deal with at what value.
However I believe that, you understand, these youthful individuals are coming into the workforce and so they’re seeing a multitude. And my guess, they’re considering, this doesn’t really feel proper. You understand, this doesn’t appear acceptable. And I believe all of us, due to the pandemic needed to reevaluate. As a result of even mothers who don’t have jobs take part in hustle tradition in some methods, proper?
They, they hustle their children like going from Mandarin class to horseback driving, to tennis, to, you understand, after which when all of that was stripped away and there was in all probability a lot extra peace and emotions of freedom regardless of the, you understand, sort of among the horrible stuff that was additionally occurring in, by way of folks’s well being.
That will need to have felt like a aid. So, yeah, I simply, I imply, one of many greatest factors I, I assume I make in my TED discuss is that like, you understand, we discuss in regards to the nice resignation and I see like TikTok movies about like the best way to be a freegan. Like the best way to, the best way to retire by age 30. You generally is a freegan, you generally is a this, you generally is a that. And I, and I might simply say, nicely, how about we simply stopped defining our self price by means of our output? How about we begin there for ourselves, you understand? And. And I might have achieved that had I recognized that I didn’t know, like I didn’t know what was incorrect. I didn’t know why I used to be hustling. I didn’t know that I used to be sort of being chased by you understand, sort of trauma from my childhood.
You understand, I needed to sort of pull all of that aside and perceive how I acquired there. However as soon as I did, I spotted that, you understand, I didn’t essentially want to depart my job. I might have taken higher care of myself whereas I used to be in it. And so I believe that, I imply, that’s definitely the nice alternative and I believe if sufficient folks do it, we are going to hopefully shift that hustle tradition inside firms too.
Meredith:
Yeah. And it’s when, whenever you’re speaking about feeling a bit of burdened, strolling outdoors, like mm-hmm. , every so often we’re totally distant. Like, if I stroll across the nook to a restaurant and get a espresso in between conferences, I really feel I’ve to, I acknowledge that I really feel responsible. I’m like, that’s loopy however I’ve acquired this sort of feeling of I should be accessible if somebody has query, Gchat, et cetera, like, you understand, you’re, you’re a nasty supervisor or lazy when you’re not there for it throughout the workday, which is, you understand, insane.
Atoosa:
And I believe plenty of that comes from our childhood and sort of being compelled into college and compelled to concentrate, compelled to essentially attend. And I believe it’s prefer it’s trauma. And it does present up. And if we are able to simply title it and simply acknowledge that we really feel it I believe that’s massive. Trigger I by no means named it, you understand, I by no means I I simply felt it and I assumed there was one thing incorrect with me.
Meredith:
And I believe one factor I’m actually considerably associated to and actually curious to your ideas on is I like this, this extremely fast-paced digital age that we’re residing in, the place everyone seems to be linked and there’s a lot content material and data coming at us on a regular basis. One factor, sort of like even simply excited about and getting ready for this assembly, I used to be remembering what a tactile expertise content material was once for me. Like I might wait, you understand, I’d be excited for the magazines to come back and typically I’d look within the mailbox and so they wouldn’t be there that day and I’d be like, ah, perhaps tomorrow. Mm-hmm. after which like, if it was like actually scorching or chilly that day, just like the magazines are scorching or chilly and then you definately’re like paging by means of them for the entire month and revisiting and re-looking at these identical articles and pictures and now an article or any picture is rather like, you understand, it’s so fleeting. It has a shelf lifetime of hours and, and content material has modified a lot. It’s altering our brains, I believe. However like, what do you see as, what am I making an attempt to ask? I assume like, do you assume there’s an moral method ahead round content material creation and consuming that’s gonna like, preserve our nervous programs regulated in order that we’re not you understand, we’re not on the market freaking out, looking at our telephones, taking a look at 18 articles on the way in which to seize a cup of espresso each day? I do know. That’s loads.
Atoosa:
And even, and even like hurting our necks, I imply sure. Like that’s like an actual factor, proper? For me it’s I believe that proper now now we have an ideal alternative. Content material isn’t solely fleeting, it is extremely low high quality. There may be an artwork kind to the whole lot. You understand, there’s an artwork kind to images, there’s an artwork kind to, I imply, the whole lot, proper? Every thing has has, there’s mastery. and the those who have achieved mastery and content material for essentially the most half, should not a part of the content material sport proper now as a result of content material is being created by on a regular basis folks. Yeah. And I believe that there’s something actually cool about that, and there’s a spot for that.
You understand, there was a time when, you understand, like my thought and my imaginative and prescient at all times was, and, and know-how fairly wasn’t fairly there once I was there, however is to kind of have a have like that kind of greater degree, like having all the actual fact checkers and duplicate editors, you understand, actually, and, and reporters, skilled expert reporters creating work after which having neighborhood that’s vibrant. And so now what’s occurred is it’s simply the neighborhood half just about.
And so like someone was telling me like, that is kinda associated, however totally different, like they have been doing an advert marketing campaign picture shoot, and the make-up artist was an influencer. And, and you understand, make-up artists, like whenever you take a look at the make-up artists that have been very massive whenever you have been youthful, which may not not have been in your radar, however just like the Kevyn Aucoins of the world, I imply, these have been artists, you understand what I imply? They’d imaginative and prescient and now it’s kinda like if you can also make a TikTok video after which they only sort of retouch it, you understand what I imply? And it, it’s simply the whole lot has simply sort of sunk a couple of ranges down. So I believe that there’s a big alternative to create very nicely curated content material. It requires somebody with cash and a imaginative and prescient and braveness to do it.
Sadly the key media firms are very fear-based. Their enterprise simply acquired eaten up and so now they’re additionally within the algorithm sport. And the, the, the parents who know the best way to rent high expertise and have had high expertise up to now are actually simply hiring sort of center administration to only sort of preserve issues going versus, like, once I was employed they gave me full reign to do no matter I wished. And a few of that stuff was like, I created a sticker web page. Proper? That’s like, costly. Very costly. It was like 100 thousand {dollars} a month funding on their half, nevertheless it actually introduced within the reader. In order that was like, that was nice. However I additionally ran footage of vaginas as a result of I felt it was actually essential for ladies to know what their gear appears like.
Yeah. And so they have been shocked by that and Walmart and Albertson didn’t like that they pulled it off their cabinets, however nonetheless it was one thing, you understand, it was, it was, it was a perspective. It was directional on the time. Now, you understand, goop does it on a regular basis, perhaps, however on the time it was very uncommon.
And no one’s doing something uncommon now aside from being a practice wreck. And I don’t imply it in a imply method. Like if someone is a practice wreck the place they’ve one thing horrible that’s occurred, then we’ll deal with it. Like when Jeff Bezos sends round an image of his junk and it will get on the web, you understand what I imply? However like there isn’t that kinda this about one thing actually highly effective that’s being created with intention. Not for younger folks or I don’t assume for ladies both. I don’t get any magazines. I’m not pressed on like, I’ve to see x, y, Z web site. I simply really feel like I’m consuming pirate booty all day, sort of taking a look at Instagram, hoping for one thing to the touch me ultimately, however nothing does.
Meredith:
As you’re speaking, I’m excited about how, sort of like, TikTok, for instance, is like the proper dopamine habit, brief circuit. Prefer it’s brief, there’s one thing surprising on the finish. The following factor comes up straight away. And it’s like our baser circuitry is so stimulated and in there however then that sort of like are extra aware when that’s what is served. Our better self isn’t actually engaged or impressed in the identical method. And it’s onerous although, like how do firms, you understand, whenever you’re competing with the best way to brief circuit customers consideration, how do you have interaction people with deeper however barely tougher greater barrier gear to entry concepts?
Atoosa:
We fucking sit down at a gathering with excessive degree folks. And we provide you with a goddamn plan. You understand what I imply? Like, it’s like nobody’s even having that dialog as a result of they’re similar to, oh, I imply like once I went up, that is the way in which. Yeah. After I take into consideration my very own experiences with content material, you understand, I bear in mind being a senior in faculty. I went to Barnard and like similar to sitting round flipping {a magazine} and someday I noticed one thing referred to as slicing, like self-injury. I had by no means heard of it. I used to be a cutter. I believed I used to be the one particular person on this planet who did this. Like you understand how you have got some bizarre factor you would possibly do together with your nail otherwise you would possibly take your toes and also you assume no one else does it. Think about such as you then come to this factor and also you’re like, oh shit, that is the factor. Why do folks do it? I’m studying it. I’m studying it. Incest. Incest. What’s incest? Now? I don’t develop up with the web. There’s no web at this level. Incest. That phrase sounds acquainted. I’ve heard incest. Incest. I’m going to actually the Miriam Webster dictionary my brother gave me for highschool commencement. I lookup incest. I’m like, holy shit, that occurred to me. You understand what I imply? And so like I’m having this large life-changing second that each clarified what I might do for the remainder of my life, that I might wish to create these moments for different folks in a really considerate method. And. Started my very own therapeutic journey.
And that was due to a bunch of editors who sat at a desk and wished to assist their viewers. And so they weren’t excited about how do I get sufficient clicks? They weren’t excited about, you understand, I sat down with my workforce each day and anytime I heard any bullshit that was like, oh, In Model did this, I’m like, I instructed you an image of a lady. This lady, you understand, this lady wants us and let’s go learn. What’s she as much as? They might begin their day studying, for half-hour, letters from our viewers to essentially perceive like, how do you be within the headspace of this lady?
As a result of we weren’t proper. We have been grownups, younger grownups, however nonetheless grownups. And so, you create from there, take into consideration the thoughtfulness that goes into that, you understand, versus like, immediately it’s like, There’s no thoughtfulness. I checked out one fucking cat video on Instagram and despatched it to my boyfriend, after which all of a sudden my whole feed is cat movies. Proper? It’s like, okay.
Like I simply wanted that one. You understand, that, and, and it jogs my memory of, and we’ve talked about this in my, I believe perhaps in my, perhaps I haven’t, however that is essential to know, like once I was creating the magazines, we might have focus teams, proper? And we’d even have month-to-month focus teams kind of surveys that we might do with our analysis division.
And with out fail, no matter got here up because the primary superstar in our journal analysis and in focus teams that readers mentioned they need could be the bottom promoting cowl. The best promoting cowl could be someone not even on the checklist. As a result of actually like, I imply, customers immediately, we name them customers. Again then we referred to as them readers. Readers need what they don’t know they need but. They don’t, they don’t even know. You understand what I imply? So like, I bear in mind Anne Hathaway was very extremely rated as someone as a result of she was in a film, perhaps Princess Diaries or one thing. And all the ladies have been kinda curious about her. And we bumped her for a canopy and did Mary Kate and Ashley, they’d by no means been on a canopy earlier than of something apart from it was the start of the Mary Kate and Ashley that we then grew to become like trend icons and no matter. Oh my God. That subject offered so nicely. And like, I bear in mind the publicist of Anne Hathaway was like, how might you bump her?
You understand, at one level I believed it was about Reese Witherspoon, nevertheless it was in regards to the Olsen twins. How might you bump her for them? Like folks wished that. And so if we go simply by algorithm, Not solely are we not doing a service like coming from like a heart-based place, however whenever you’re not doing a service, then you definately’re only a fucking, you’re similar to a, a folly, you understand what I imply? Like TikTok is barely as massive because the folly and, and once I created {a magazine} for a couple of years and all these years later, you care about me and also you care about me as a result of I cared about you. And that was a relationship. And that’s how we construct manufacturers, it’s not simply by like, what’s our short-term achieve and the way can we get essentially the most variety of clicks? Or how can I’ve essentially the most variety of followers? I don’t have essentially the most variety of followers, however my fucking followers, like, I’ll inform you. Like after we see one another on the road, we cry as a result of they modified my life and I modified their life. And that’s simply actual.
And there is a chance for that. There may be, it’s not about essentially me doing it, perhaps it’s certainly one of you guys doing it in your, in your age group. However there is a chance to essentially be in neighborhood in the way in which we’re all hungry for. And so it’s actually, it’s gonna take someone like, take a look at this fucking Elon Musk. Proper? I imply, I like him as a result of he made my automotive and I like my automotive. However I imply, spent all that cash shopping for Twitter. We simply, who says it issues to be in connection, in neighborhood of service? We are able to do higher than clickbait. Someone with cash’s gotta do it cuz this shit doesn’t occur totally free.
Meredith:
I’m feeling actually impressed by what you’re saying. I really feel like even going again to the place you began with, similar to you might be like, what’s slicing? Oh my God. What? Like my, I really feel like my coronary heart is pounding. Even simply excited about that second after which excited about a time the place, I don’t know, not like a darkish ages earlier than the web, however the place data was tougher to come back by.
Atoosa:
Good data remains to be onerous to come back by. No. Yeah. And I do know, trigger I’ve a 13 12 months outdated who’s consistently making an attempt to do recipes from TikTok and so they don’t work trigger it’s not good content material.
Meredith:
And it’s like whenever you speak about service and like service, knowledge sharing, curation and sort of the alchemy of like, how can I join with what folks wanna be linked with about, I additionally assume that what you’re speaking about, like to not shade TikTok-ers, nevertheless it’s sort of taking, it’s like, I’m gonna take your, your consideration, your dopamine, your circuits for being my follower.
Atoosa:
Proper on the finish. It’s like observe and share. Observe and share. Observe and share. Yeah. We by no means requested you to observe and share, you understand what I imply? We simply tried to do job for you and I believe all of the magazines again within the day do, and, and I simply assume that there’s that chance to offer as a substitute of take and, and can, would require I believe someone with an urge for food and, and deep pockets to, to fund it, actually. Yeah.
Meredith:
Nicely, I do know we’re at time and I’m so grateful Atoosa, I really feel like I’m gonna be driving on excited about what you shared for the following few weeks. Like I, so if folks wish to observe you proper now and wanna have interaction with you and your content material, the place do you wanna direct them towards?
Atoosa: I imply, you understand, like lots of people, I’m on Instagram, it’s simply my full title, Atoosa Rubenstein. However the place, you understand, I do, my work is on Substack so it’s atoosa.com and I’ve a weekly letter that yeah, that feels, you understand, very very like the grownup model of the editors’ letters I used to write down again then.
Meredith:
And I’ve liked them. I’ll embrace each of these within the present notes. And thanks.
Thanks a lot. This was such a enjoyable dialog. I’m so glad that you’re on the market doing what you’re doing and speaking about this stuff, like thanks a lot, Atoosa.
Atoosa:
You’re welcome. Thanks a lot.
Meredith:
All proper everybody. We hope you loved our chat with Tusa. We’ll be coming to you subsequent week with an interview with Cliff Stevens.
Cliff is the top of Liberty Mutual’s in-house company Copper Giants. He has tons of knowledge and expertise about constructing an in-house company, working at extra conventional locations like Arnold. He’s a font of knowledge. Tremendous cool.
Ian:
We’ll additionally put a bit of plug right here for Bratton’s content material. If you’re not among the many virtually 100 thousand entrepreneurs who subscribe to our e-newsletter, you might be severely lacking out on some actually good content material data.
We’ll throw the hyperlink within the present notes under if you wish to subscribe.
Meredith:
And that’s it people. Thanks for listening. You’ll be able to price and overview us on iTunes, and when you wanna get in contact, you may e mail us at contentpeople@brafton.com
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