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On Content material Folks, Meredith Farley interviews inventive professionals and leaders to get a behind-the-scenes take a look at their profession experiences and switch that into actionable recommendation for listeners. Tune in to listen to from specialists in numerous media, and get impressed to search out contentment in your personal inventive profession.
Episode #12 Abstract
Liv Albert is the creator and host of the podcast “Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!” She chats with Meredith Farley on this episode about analysis, studying, Greek mythology, podcasting, the ability of an amazing story and extra. Pay attention alongside to search out inspiration on your personal inventive endeavors.
Content material Folks: Analysis, Greek Mythology and The Energy of Podcasts
On this episode of Content material Folks, I chat with Liv Albert, creator and host of the podcast “Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!”. Together with her diploma in English Literature & Classics, she tells historic tales in a enjoyable, witty means. She not solely writes, produces and hosts her podcast, however she’s additionally an writer of two Greek mythology books.
Liv fell in love with Greek mythology round seventh grade, when she noticed a ‘90’s miniseries on “The Odyssey.” Since then, she’s explored historic sources and honed her analysis expertise to convey these timeless tales to life.
“Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!” began out as a enjoyable concept, however Liv shortly realized that it had a lot extra to supply — each to her listeners and her life.
Listed below are a couple of extra issues we speak about in between all of the myths and magic:
The significance of giving your self time to observe and enhance.Dealing with feedback and not-so-constructive criticism.Discovering and understanding tales that matter.
View on Zencastr
Thanks for listening!
– Meredith Farley, Host of Content material Folks
Extra Content material for Content material Folks
Liv’s podcast: Try “Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!”
Liv’s e book: Get your intro to the greats in “Greek Mythology: The Gods, Goddesses, and Heroes Handbook.”
Brafton: We is probably not mythological Greek heroes, however we’re advertising heroes. Discover out why in our digital advertising publication.
Meredith’s publication: Try Meredith’s publication (additionally referred to as Content material Folks).
Podcast Transcript:
Meredith: Hey, everybody, and welcome to Content material Folks. Tune in to listen to from creatives, leaders, and specialists in numerous media. I’m your host, Meredith Farley.
Ian: And I’m the present’s producer, Ian Servin.
Meredith: Hey, Ian.
As we speak, we talked to Liv Albert. Liv’s the creator, host, and producer of the extremely popular Greek and Roman mythology podcast, Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child. I really like Liv’s present. I used to be actually glad to speak to her. In the event you’re not accustomed to it, it’s a twice weekly podcast through which Liv dives deep into the small print of historic Greek and Roman myths and the historical past that surrounded them. She brings a very cool perspective, a number of humor, sarcasm, and a contemporary lens to those tales. And he or she’s constructed up a very enormous listener face. The present will get hundreds of thousands of downloads per 12 months. We talked to Liv in regards to the origins of the present and what she’s realized constructing such a profitable podcast from the bottom up.
Ian: Clearly, podcasts have been round for some time, however I really feel like so many different issues, they actually blew up through the pandemic. So it was tremendous cool to speak to somebody who actually constructed a present from the bottom up and grew an viewers and a neighborhood round it. Podcasts are clearly an excellent attention-grabbing format for content material. And with all the consideration it’s been getting these days, it’s one thing that lots of people are taking a look at. And Liv had so many nice issues to say, not nearly what makes a podcast particular, but in addition what makes good content material and how one can take your personal ardour and enthusiasm to make one thing that’s going to attach with an viewers.
Meredith: Yeah, it was nice to listen to from her on that. So with out additional ado, we hope you prefer it. Right here’s our convo.
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Meredith: Thanks a lot for becoming a member of content material individuals and being on this episode.
Liv: Thanks a lot for having me. It’s very good.
Meredith: I’m so excited. I do know we have been simply chatting a second in the past about this, however I’ve been a very long time listener of your podcast. My pal Brianna really turned me on to let’s speak about myths, child. And he or she was really additionally on a later episode of this podcast.
So for listeners who aren’t accustomed to you, may you share a little bit bit about who you’re and what your podcast is about?
Liv: Yeah, so I’m Liv Albert. I created and host the podcast, let’s speak about myths, child, which is a factor I nonetheless dislike saying in entrance of different individuals and simply the title, not the podcast, clearly. Yeah, I began it about 5 and a half years in the past. I speak about Greek mythology. I retell tales and over the previous few years, I’ve taken to talking with like teachers and specialists and authors and all these totally different unimaginable individuals in regards to the historic world and principally each side at this level. I’ll take something if it options the traditional Mediterranean in any respect. That’s simply principally my complete life at this level.
Meredith: When did your love of Greek mythology start and what do you suppose drew you to it?
Liv: So humorous, I get requested this like actually on a regular basis and I by no means have an amazing reply as a result of it’s principally that like I’ve liked it since I used to be a child, however I don’t bear in mind like the place that got here from particularly aside from I used to be a toddler. I do bear in mind in grade seven and I say grade seven as a result of I’m Canadian. That’ll come out fairly fast.
I had this instructor who not solely taught us Greek mythology, but in addition he had us watch the there’s like this mini collection from the 90s that like I’m of an age the place once I was in grade seven and for him to indicate us, it meant that he had like a VHS recording that he needed to roll a TV into the room and play this and we needed to quick ahead the commercials as a result of it was recorded from TV and all that.
However yeah, it was like this mini collection of the Odyssey and that’s all I bear in mind is like having to look at that. I barely bear in mind what’s in it. I simply bear in mind watching that and have or not it’s like if it wasn’t the catalyst, it simply drew me deeper into Greek mythology
Meredith: For positive. I feel we’re of the identical age, so just like the previous recollections. I feel I watched that. What’s the title of the man that’s in it? It’s like Armand.
Liv: Sure, yeah, precisely Armand, one thing in lots and like I don’t bear in mind what elements of the odyssey it featured, I simply know, we watched it.
Meredith: Oh my, I yeah, I completely keep in mind that one and I feel that was my intro to Greek mythology as properly, though I didn’t keep it up in the identical means. That’s actually that’s attention-grabbing.
So all proper, myths, I consider it as the unique content material and I’m actually tempted to dive proper into questions on myths as a result of I do know you’re such an knowledgeable, however as a result of this podcast is about inventive work and a number of creatives are listening, I wish to one, acknowledge that you’ve got achieved a big success by your content material and two, ensure that as we go, I’m doing my finest to mine your experiences for actionable recommendation for listeners who additionally would possibly wish to create one thing for themselves.
And so first, one factor I’m very inquisitive about is to ask you to share a little bit bit in regards to the day after day work of me teaming akin to profitable and it will appear to me actually labor and analysis heavy podcast, like what goes into an episode and what’s every week or two in your life typically like?
Liv: Yeah, so first I might suggest to anybody trying to do that to not do it the way in which that I’ve executed it, which is that I’m now incapable of relinquishing management on so many issues. And whereas I do have an assistant now, she principally simply does the stuff that I might have by no means had time to do if I didn’t have her.
So like hiring her simply gave us extra stuff. It didn’t take a lot off of my plate as a result of I’m a multitude. However that’s all to say, yeah, it’s extremely labor intensive. I usually simply always search for ways in which I could make it simpler on myself and I’ve but to search out them. However principally, I launch two episodes of the podcast each week on Tuesdays. I do what I name a story episode. It’s the place it’s simply me telling tales from Greek mythology. Or on this case proper now, I’m within the midst of this massive historical past collection on Sparta, which is much more analysis intensive in a means that makes me query every part I’ve ever executed. However for the common episodes, for the Greek fantasy episodes, it does require a number of analysis.
Fortunately, I’m fairly good at analysis now. And one of many issues that’s humorous is I can’t even actually surrender the analysis facet to my assistant as a result of every part I do in analysis, I do like concurrently whereas writing it. So I’ll have eight books open round me, like 10 totally different web sites. And I’m simply studying this stuff and typing the script as I’m going. And so these episodes at all times have a script. It sounds actually off the cuff a number of the time, I wish to suppose a minimum of, however it’s utterly scripted for essentially the most half. It’s identical to a stream of consciousness scripted. So it nonetheless feels like an individual rambling. However these are like 5 to 6 thousand phrases that I’m writing and researching each week.
After which Friday episodes are both like, I’ll simply learn one thing from the traditional world that’s like a translation that’s within the public area. And thus is like copyright free, or I will likely be talking to 2 teachers, specialists, authors and issues like that. In order that requires me to schedule and document and edit these conversations, which is why I generally do the studying episodes, as a result of they’re significantly simpler. So once I have to make my life a little bit bit nicer in every week, I’ll do a kind of as an alternative. However usually I don’t as a result of I’ve too many wonderful folks that I’ve already recorded with or wish to document with. And it simply finally ends up like that. So like I’m recording with any person tomorrow. And so it, I yeah, it’s a number of work, principally, if that solutions the query. But it surely’s clearly executed me properly.
Meredith: Yeah, that’s actually attention-grabbing. As you’re speaking, it’s reminding me a little bit little bit of perhaps like startup founders who’ve created one thing that’s like wholly of them. And even determining tips on how to in any means divide and delegate feels completely unimaginable. So what it feels like is such an attention-grabbing course of.
So you’re researching and writing in actual time. And that’s for the not, however the scripted, however the simply you Tuesday episode. And then you definitely’re additionally coordinating, researching and enhancing the dialog episodes. And that’s taking place in actual time each week. Or do you do a number of forward of time? Like, how do you’re employed that?
Liv: I attempt to do a number of forward of time. However clearly, as a result of they’re so labor intensive, it’s usually probably not potential as a result of there’s solely so many phrases you’ll be able to write in every week. And when one episode is 5 to six,000, in addition they continue to grow. Prefer it was extra like three to 4,000. And I simply hold getting wordier and having an excessive amount of to say in each episode. In order that’s partially on me.
However I’m additionally actually aware, like I’ve adverts in my present and that’s how I pay the payments. However I additionally by no means need the episode so quick that the adverts are overwhelming. So whereas I used to do what I referred to as mini myths have been like quick, temporary episodes. Now I don’t actually suppose that I’ve the power to be that temporary anymore as a result of I’m too obsessive about all the intricacies within the historic world, like that’s simply include what number of years I’ve been doing this. But additionally I by no means wish to launch episodes which can be so quick that the adverts change into excessive. So it’s at all times like a juggling act with that as properly, which wasn’t actually the query that you just requested. However yeah, it’s all taking place in actual time for essentially the most half. And I do attempt to batch put together so usually I’ll do this with if I’m doing a studying episode, as a result of I can do these a little bit simpler. So if I’m having a day the place I can simply bang out a few of these, I’ll, or if I’ve a bunch of conversations, I attempt to edit them in order that they’re able to go. For example, like all my Sparta conversations are able to go now. And I’m working extra on the analysis ones as we go. Sorry, my, I’m attempting to not breathe straight into my microphone, however I’m speaking an excessive amount of, my respiratory is troubling.
In order that’s principally how I deal with these. My objective is at all times to have like a minimum of a month ready upfront. However as a result of they’re so labor intensive, and I wrestle with ADHD, that was not an issue till I grew to become full time with the podcast. And now it’s very onerous to do issues upfront as a result of I want the deadline to be able to power my mind to do them. So it turns into, yeah it’s tough, however that’s at all times a objective. It’s to work forward.
Meredith: Wow, that’s actually attention-grabbing. I’m listening to the Sparta collection for what it’s price. And I completely adore it. It’s so fascinating. And I really feel like if you hear, you’ll be able to really feel like they really feel like laborers of affection and like a real dedication to you being as thorough and complete and considerate as potential about this. These are actually attention-grabbing ideas. And I’m like, what do you, why do you even use sources? How do you discover your sources for these very complicated and in-depth tales?
Liv: The Sparta ones for one, thanks. I’m glad to listen to individuals are having fun with the Sparta ones. I’ve heard it from a couple of individuals and it really, prefer it makes a very massive distinction as a result of these are like a whole, like me stepping out of all of my consolation zones and speaking about not solely historical past, however this a part of historical past that I’m not that accustomed to. I did my BA, however I’m 10 years outdated now. And what do I bear in mind from it? Not almost sufficient. And so the historical past ones are way more daunting for me and I’m questioning whether or not I’m simply rambling and sounding like I make any sense. However up to now, so good.
However so for the analysis of the Sparta collection, the one means I used to be capable of do it’s that the assistant that I employed final 12 months, Michaela Smith, is one wonderful, however two, she is finding out classics in college. And so she not solely has a more energizing grasp on all of this, however she additionally has entry to college publications and college libraries and every part. So fortunately, like all the analysis, primarily she pulled every part that we may wish after which put it into a method by which I may then use it. And we’ve been engaged on the scripts collectively lots in a means that we don’t for the mythology as a result of I, it’s simply me storytelling in the mean time. However for these ones, there’s much more she’s been writing a ton based mostly on her personal analysis and information.
After which I’ll go in and make it extra my voice, my humor, all these various things and like flesh it out with what I wish to say and make it rather less tutorial as a result of she’s caught in that headspace, which is admittedly useful for me. And I’ll simply decide by it and alter what I want. So for the Sparta one which’s been fully based mostly on her, however in relation to the mythology, like I’ve now spent so a few years doing this, just like the analysis strategies I exploit now versus 5 years in the past are unbelievably totally different. So the place I used to simply Google issues and see what I may discover and piece stuff collectively or I had one e book of Greek myths that I used to be doing that and it was like, a retelling e book, like a e book, a scholar wrote of Greek myths fairly than the unique sources. And now I’m like, it’s very uncommon that I’ll use something that’s not a major supply like from the traditional world. And when it’s, it’s this two quantity set that I’ve, which is totally ineffective to anybody who’s simply coming at mythology from a interest standpoint.
And for any person like me, it’s deeply so useful. It’s referred to as early Greek myths by Timothy Gantz. And it’s like a supply e book. Mainly this tutorial went by and picked out each reference to each character in each historic supply. And he places all of them collectively and talks about what’s the similar and what’s totally different and what these bizarre issues are and who stated what and when and he usually has sources which can be fragmentary or partially misplaced in a means that it’s usually onerous to search out that as properly. In order that’s utterly invaluable. There’s additionally a web site that’s like a lifesaver as a result of it compiles a number of historic sources as properly. So principally I’ll say I’m fairly acquainted now with the place to search out historic sources. I’ve so many books and so many alternative locations the place I can discover them.
So it’s simply a number of piercing by 1,000,000 totally different sources attempting to stay to authentic sources or historic sources fairly or, students writing about these sources and it’s fairly wild. However I’ve simply turned it into an artwork at this level and might just about discover something.
Meredith: Yeah, sounds prefer it. Someplace associated to the trailer for the present or a minimum of it was once I first began listening, which was a couple of years in the past, you referenced, you stated, Hey guys, like begin at this episode quantity. And I feel the message was one thing to the impact of round this episode is if you really feel such as you honed in on tips on how to inform a narrative and the way we needed the podcast to be.
And one, I discovered that even simply fascinated with it now as somebody who’s executed like 10 episodes of a podcast, I discover that actually comforting as a result of it’s like, yep, you bought to do a number of these earlier than you actually determine tips on how to do it. However you’re so good at it. Are you able to inform me a little bit bit about what you realized about storytelling and podcasting from these early days?
Liv: Oh, God, yeah. The factor about podcasts that’s each wonderful and so irritating is that they simply stay eternally, regardless of if you recorded them. Episodes I recorded and put on the market 5 and a half years in the past, individuals are coming to them as in the event that they’re a model new factor they’re listening to for good or dangerous. It may be troubling. What you’re referencing is definitely the very first episode of the present has a disclaimer up on the prime. It says round this episode, I acquired higher at what I’m doing, I acquired higher at researching, I acquired a greater microphone, blah, blah, blah. And so I do have that on the very starting of the primary episode. And does it persuade individuals?
No, everybody begins with the primary episode. My first episode is at all times the primary downloads of my complete present, together with I feel it was about one tenth of my complete downloads for this 12 months, which is sort of a reference. So yeah, like 2022, I had a complete of 400 episodes, clearly not launched in 2022. However by the top of the 12 months, my present had 400 episodes obtainable within the feed. And out of these 400, like our complete, I acquired one thing over 10 million, I feel downloads final 12 months. And a million of these downloads was my first episode.
Why are you doing this to me? It will get so significantly better. As a result of lots of people cease after the primary one too, or go away me evaluations the place they’re like, she’s dangerous at researching. And I’m like I advised you that I acknowledged it. I’m higher now. It’s virtually like I’ve been doing this for 5 years, and there’s 400 episodes, like perhaps the primary 5 aren’t the perfect reference factors. Anyway, I really feel very strongly about it. But additionally, they get essentially the most downloads, in order that they’re not getting deleted.
However that’s all to say I began this podcast as a interest, explicitly, as a result of I used to be actually depressed, and I hated my job. I’d gone by a full blown quarter life disaster and give up my profession that I’d labored every part for and moved throughout the nation dwelling ish, however not dwelling. And so it was identical to I used to be in a deeply messy place, and I used to be tremendous depressed, and lonely, and all I did was take heed to podcasts. And even like we talked about earlier than we began recording, such as you develop these sorts of relationships with the podcasters that you just take heed to, and so they’re like buddies. And that was simply my complete factor. And I began one purely as a result of I used to be like this could possibly be my factor too, like I may simply do that as a method to go the time to really feel much less depressed, what have you ever.
And that’s 100% why I began the present. And so it was actually piecemeal, it was like, I explicitly keep in mind that in all probability the primary three or 4 episodes, I wrote the script primarily in my telephone’s notes app whereas I used to be not doing the job that I hated, whereas I used to be sitting in my workplace typing and like I used to be so I used to be studying on like Wikipedia and like different no matter different web sites I may get on my cellular phone, on my telephone whereas I used to be like additionally writing within the notes app. So that they have been very simply they have been a stream of consciousness, however in a really totally different means from what I do now. And it was simply thrown collectively and simply no matter got here to me.
And so I feel they’re good. And I don’t suppose that they have been dangerous by way of like storytelling, however they weren’t as correct as I would love, as detailed, they glossed over a number of issues. All of the misogynists on the market who hate my present would say that I discussed the patriarchy an excessive amount of. I didn’t actually change that, however I acquired higher at it.
And I feel it’s only a matter of the extra you’re doing it and the extra sources you get to I feel the episodes the place I made a decision I acquired higher at it was once I began the Iliad. And that’s as a result of I used to be studying the Iliad, whereas earlier than I had been studying like books of Greek myths which can be written by individuals in the present day, versus the traditional sources. However with the Iliad, I needed to inherently go to the traditional sources and I feel that sort of switched one thing for me. And I spotted the worth of being solely or wherever potential, solely with historic sources, and what that did each for my element and accuracy and so many alternative issues.
And so yeah, I feel it’s only a matter of it’s simply observe, proper? It’s simply with podcasts, observe stays within the feed eternally. Whereas in the event you’re writing a novel, you’re going to undergo 10 totally different drafts and nobody’s ever going to see these. However a podcast, particularly if you’re not beginning it with an organization backing you with producers with editors with all these various things, such as you’re simply beginning it with nonetheless you’re going to start out it. And yeah, like the primary in all probability 20 episodes of my present or observe that everybody will get to take heed to eternally.
Meredith: 1,000,000 individuals a 12 months take heed to and perpetuate.
Liv: Yeah. I really simply heard from a professor at a college who was like, I simply wish to let that I assigned your first episode to my class and so they actually liked it. And he or she stated all these extremely type issues. However I used to be like, Oh, God, no, not my first episode. Choose a special one. I’m so significantly better now.
Meredith: I ponder, do you suppose that okay, do you suppose they are surely that dangerous? Or do you suppose you have been, have been you onerous in your set tougher on your self within the early days?
Liv: So I feel dangerous is the flawed phrase to make use of by way of how I actually really feel. I don’t suppose that they’re dangerous. I simply suppose that they’re not an excellent illustration of what my present has been for the final three to 4 years. And I’m pleased with what the present is now. I’m pleased with what it was again then too. But it surely was a special present. It was leisure. It was identical to, right here’s a enjoyable and quippy fantasy. It’s going to be 20 minutes lengthy. It’s going to be actually floor degree. You’re going to have enjoyable. It’s positive.
And I don’t suppose there’s something flawed with that. However what my present is now’s an actual deep dive into the traditional world, the traditional sources, the context, the nuance, the historical past, every part in a means that I really like. And I feel lots of people additionally simply favor storytelling. So in all probability these early episodes are finest for them. However I really like every part I’ve realized and the small print I can go into now and the nuance and the historical past of actually every part like I’m obsessive about that. And so to me, like I’m simply far more proud. And I feel that my present present is simply higher in all of these respects, nevertheless it is sort of a choice factor, in all probability greater than something.
Meredith: Whenever you say historic sources I don’t I’m, are you able to clarify precisely what that’s? I don’t know. I actually know.
Liv: That’s honest. Yeah. I’m going to make use of a number of phrases which can be completely regular for me. So please ask about something. However historic sources, I, so what I imply by that’s the sources that truly come from the traditional world. So I learn them in translation, however they’re from the traditional world. So I’m speaking in regards to the Iliad, the Odyssey, Homer’s works, quote unquote Homer, he in all probability wasn’t an actual man. However these are the works that we have now his title on. Or the traditional performs, the performs of Euripides and Aeschylus and Sophocles.
These are a few of my favorites to cowl. Euripides is my favourite. He’s the very best. So these are performs that have been written within the historic world, written within the fifth century BCE carried out within the fifth century. And so they simply survive for us to learn in the present day. So the comparability between one thing that was written in historic Greece and survives for us to learn in translation, like the choice is say books of Greek fantasy which can be written by individuals within the final 100 years. So Edith Hamilton is essentially the most well-known, I might say. However there are such a lot of, I wrote one, mine is a, is an instance of this, individuals writing in regards to the Greek myths, however from our, from now, simply over the past 100 years.
And sometimes what they’re doing is taking a look at a bunch of various historic sources, and so they’re placing all of it collectively. However usually, they’re doing that, after which they’re inserting their very own narratives and generally biases, just like the e book that I had that I used to be utilizing on the early days of the podcast, I simply discovered, it’s simply referred to as the Greek myths and prefer it was on sale at a bookstore and I used to be actually broke and doing this only for enjoyable. In order that’s the one I purchased and that’s the one I learn. And I’ve regarded again on elements of it now. And it has all of those utterly invented issues which can be usually tremendous misogynist, and it presents them as if that’s precisely what was stated within the precise Greek, the traditional sources, the Greek mythology.
Whereas that is completely a person inserting his personal wild insults to ladies which can be like not within the historic sources in any respect. So usually if you’re studying these ones, and sadly, they’re essentially the most accessible, they’re essentially the most complete, they’re the simplest means so that you can discover all the tales identical to an on a regular basis individual accessing them. However they will usually be tremendous inaccurate by way of what we do know in regards to the historic world. And so they can usually be, as a result of for essentially the most half, every part’s been written by males up till very just lately, they will usually be actually misogynistic. And also you don’t know if you suppose like the traditional world was tremendous misogynistic, nevertheless it wasn’t that dangerous. Like this man may even make it worse, which is saying one thing. Yeah, so it’s like that’s the massive distinction and why I’m so particular now the place I’m going to be referring to the traditional sources wherever potential.
Meredith: So you’re taking what I understand as a really intentionally intersectional lens when telling and deciphering these myths. And I’m curious if, and also you’re answering it, however a query I got here into this eager to ask you was, do you suppose that these myths initially spring from a patriarchal heterosexual lens? Or is {that a} extra latter day retelling that we’re nonetheless disentangling ourselves from? I don’t know if that’s clear. Mainly, I’m questioning, I used to be eager to ask you in the event you thought the myths began off as sexist as they appear.
Liv: The primary phrasing or query I feel is even higher. And I utterly get it. So I’m completely going to reply that as a result of it’s a little bit little bit of each in a means that I feel is admittedly attention-grabbing. So there’s going to be lots right here. Mainly, the traditional sources as we have now them now have been completely developed in a patriarchal society. Patriarchal, sure, heterosexual, no, which I feel is attention-grabbing. So the time through which these items like say the Iliad and the Odyssey, I’m simply going to make use of these as the perfect instance as a result of they’re additionally the earliest surviving sources we have now from historic Greece. So that they’re from in regards to the eighth or ninth centuries BCE, among the oldest.
So that they have been developed in a patriarchal society. They have been developed round that point. They won’t have been written down till later as a result of every part comes from an oral storytelling custom. So round that eighth, ninth century, these have been oral tales that have been advised by touring bards. That is why we expect Homer was in all probability not an actual individual. It was in all probability a lot of touring bards that will journey the Greek world. They might inform these tales, however they’d sing them their songs set to music.
So it’s not even simply poetry, like they’re completely songs set to music, they’d sing them in entrance of a bunch of individuals, night time after night time, issues would change as a result of there have been totally different individuals singing them. So all of them sung in regards to the Iliad, all of them sung in regards to the wrath of Achilles, however they’d insert issues, change issues, alter, probably based mostly on the place they have been telling the story to whom, all of this stuff they’d wish to like characteristic that area extra closely or there’s all these totally different connections that would make and why this stuff have been always altering as a result of it was solely ever spoken aloud. After which ultimately they have been written down into issues that we have now survived in the present day. So that they have been each developed and written down in a patriarchal society. Nonetheless,
the teams that existed in the identical areas earlier than and influenced the gods that exist within the Greek mythology that we all know have been, nonetheless lengthy, far again, in all probability an excellent 1000 years earlier than, they have been matriarchal in a means, or we expect that they have been, we don’t have writing, however we have now a number of collectible figurines which can be ladies which have breasts and every part. We’ve got a number of people who counsel that they have been typically pretty matriarchal, if not utterly, like they have been, they worshiped goddess far more than they did by the point of the works that we have now, if that makes any sense within the Bronze Age and earlier, they worshiped ladies much more.
And on their very own there’s a number of goddesses that have been in all probability developed in that point after which handed all the way down to change into the goddesses of Greek fantasy, Athena, Aphrodite, Gaia. They initially in all probability have been extra goddess-based after which they simply grew to become these lesser characters that they’re within the works that we have now. Lots of it’s simply based mostly on archaeology, not textual content, as a result of we don’t have, we don’t have tales from that point. We solely have if we have now any writing, it tends to be, like, actually sensible what existed within the palaces on the time.
And so all to say, like, all to say they have been all developed in that world, however in addition they have these leanings of goddesses. And you’ll really feel the place these goddesses are available. Aphrodite is extremely sturdy. She is extremely sexually transgressive. She will get to do no matter she desires. And he or she’s married, however she doesn’t, she’s not together with her husband very a lot. She has youngsters with a bunch of different individuals. She is a very good instance of this goddess that in all probability got here to us by an initially matriarchal society and became what we all know of Aphrodite in the present day. And so there’s lots in there. However in relation to the heterosexual aspect, that’s, for essentially the most half, one thing that took place extra when Christianity took maintain and that we’re nonetheless pulling aside in the present day. The traditional Greeks weren’t significantly heterosexual, however in addition they weren’t gay in the way in which that we consider it now. They, a number of totally different city-states, primarily Athens and Sparta, or Sparta was a little bit bit totally different. I’m going to speak about it in relation to Athens, as a result of that they had this observe referred to as pederasty, which is tremendous gross.
As a result of what it’s that older males would have a younger man slash boy who they’d mentor, nevertheless it was additionally an inherently sexual relationship. And it was, like, it was positively affection-based and romantic at occasions as properly. They normally had wives as properly. So there’s this actually, they simply didn’t think about sexuality like we did. There’s no notion of homosexual, straight, bi, no matter. There’s simply nothing. It’s simply no matter is occurring. They didn’t marry the identical gender or issues like that. However they positively had sexual relationships. And if ladies did, amongst different ladies, we don’t actually have it clear as a result of they didn’t actually consider it that means.
They in all probability wouldn’t have seen it as intercourse. So it didn’t are available, nevertheless it was in all probability taking place lots. However as a result of it wasn’t penetrative, they didn’t see it as intercourse. And so we don’t hear about it. It’s actually attention-grabbing. We do have the poet Sappho from the Island of Lesbos. She is why we have now the phrase lesbian as a result of she wrote love songs to ladies. And he or she was a lesbian as a result of she was from the Island of Lesbos. And that’s actually the place the phrase comes from. So there may be that. However she’s a one-off. And lots of people will let you know that her love poem songs weren’t about ladies, that she was writing them for a person to present to a lady as a result of they wish to utterly erase her sexuality, no matter it
was. It’s actually fascinating. However, yeah, principally, the heterosexuality that we assign to all of that’s positively Christian slash fashionable. But additionally it’s simply it’s important to ignore every part about gender and sexuality. In relation to the traditional world, in an enchanting means, I may go on eternally.
So I’ll cease myself now.
Meredith: Now, that’s so fascinating. I wish to ensure that I’ve it proper. As you’re speaking, I’m virtually picturing a chemistry set. That sounds bizarre. But it surely’s like these historic prototypical myths are, this liquid that then by these totally different lenses of the tradition of the time will get distilled in numerous methods.
So it’s if I find yourself, I feel I’ve the order proper, however right me if I’m flawed. So Bronze Age, in all probability extra matriarchal, among the Greek goddesses that we all know have been in all probability greater gamers and worshiped a bit greater than it’s into the traditional Greeks, the place there’s not essentially a heterosexual lens, however there’s definitely a patriarchal lens utilized to the mores of the tales. After which we sadly lose a ton of the traditional texts. After which there’s these Bards in additional like darkish, round, did you say round 800 BCE?
Liv: So the Bards are literally like actually early historic Greece. Oh, okay. And yeah. So and I’ll make clear too, it’s in all probability earlier than the Bronze Age, the place it was matriarchal. However the Bronze Age has a little bit bit extra of it leftover. However the Bronze Age is the place we first get, like, all the most important stuff that we take into consideration. However there isn’t a, or there’s minimal writing that comes from that point. So there’s a number of totally different intervals in historic Greece. The Bronze Age is like 2000 BCE to 1200-ish. After which there’s this massive decline. Lots of people debate a number of various things about what occurred.
So I gained’t attempt to try this. However then there may be like this early Iron Age interval, the place it’s actually transitional. We’re coping with a whole change in writing programs. So the writing that we have now from the Bronze Age there are like parts that come into the traditional Greek that we all know now, nevertheless it’s fairly totally different. After which that’s when we have now this emergence of the oral storytelling custom. So we’re speaking like virtually proper after the Bronze Age. After which there’s the Archaic interval, which comes after that, which is like among the historic Greece that we consider, just like the Persian Wars. That’s just like the sixth, seventh centuries. After which we transfer into the Classical interval, which is what you actually consider. That’s when all of the philosophers are round. That’s when all of the playwrights are round. That’s when Athens goes to warfare with Sparta. After which from there, it’s just like the hellenistic interval, which comes after Alexander the Nice and all of this, after which the Roman interval. So principally, like all of that’s patriarchal. Beforehand, there are these goddess collectible figurines that we expect counsel a matriarchal society, a minimum of in some areas.
However yeah, the storytelling is definitely like oral storytelling of the touring bards is just like the earliest writing or tales that we have now now. Additionally, I spotted, so the early Iron Age is usually referred to as the Darkish Ages. It’s an excellent problematic time period although, really, as a result of Darkish Ages counsel one thing in regards to the individuals when really what it simply means is an absence of sources, which is why we have now the Darkish Ages, the time interval I don’t even know, like extra just lately, I’m actually dangerous with every part after BC. But it surely simply refers to an absence of sources, nevertheless it suggests one thing in regards to the folks that finally ends up being dangerous. However in Greece, they name it the Darkish Ages, nevertheless it’s really the early Iron Age interval as a result of it’s not darkish. We’ve got writing, we have now proof, like all these various things clarify it’s not really a Darkish Ages. However individuals do generally name it that also. However yeah, that’s just like the early Darkish Ages. It’s just like the Greek Darkish Ages versus a thousand years later, when there’s one other quote unquote Darkish Ages.
Meredith: In order that is smart. Sure. So the oral custom is occurring. And that’s taking place earlier than the extra classical period. Is that proper?
Liv: Yeah. Yeah. In order that’s once we acquired just like the Iliad and the Odyssey and a lot extra that we don’t that has been misplaced or by no means written down within the first place. After which the classical interval is the place we get numerous writing as a result of it’s when the philosophers are coming in, they’re writing a lot stuff. Plato wrote means an excessive amount of. He was excessive. After which the playwrights the place we have now so a lot of their performs surviving and a whole bunch that we all know are lacking. After which there’s additionally like we solely have three surviving tragedians. So writers of tragedy, once we know there have been so many extra, however solely three like work from three of them survive.
After which there are the comedy writers too, of the classical interval. So there’s simply a lot content material from the classical interval. Whereas within the archaic interval, there’s much less and within the early Iron Ages, there’s even much less. So yeah, it’s simply sort of the development of that. However one factor that’s actually essential to consider is that every part we have a tendency to speak about in relation to historic Greece from the philosophers to the playwrights to simply this normal concept of what we consider for the classical interval broadly. And like that sort of influences how we see historic Greece typically tends to return from Athens. Athens was a serious participant in that interval. However they weren’t as massive earlier.
And so they definitely weren’t just like the be all and finish all of historic Greece is simply that’s the place the writing that not solely the writing that survives to us in the present day tends to return from, however significantly additionally the writing that individuals have been finding out for the final 1000 years. And over the previous few a long time and centuries, I might say, individuals are beginning to have a look at issues from different areas. However up till this level, we’re actually closely influenced by Athens. So every part comes by this actually sturdy ethnocentric lens that influences what we expect. And so Athens was tremendous patriarchal. Athens, ladies in Athens, their lives sucked. However we will’t say that with certainty about the remainder of Greece. Their lives have been totally different in Sparta, like marginally higher, however largely simply totally different. After which elsewhere, there’s like much more sorts of query marks. So a number of what we are inclined to say about historic Greece, particularly within the classical interval and archaic too, to an extent, is rather like Athens.
Whereas Athens is a small a part of the bigger Greece, which can also be an excellent reminder that historic Greece was not a unified place in anyway. They have been at all times combating with one another. We name them historic Greece now, nevertheless it was like a bunch of small states that generally would group up with each other. However finally, they have been all like particular person individuals, particular person like states, and doing their very own factor, writing their very own stuff, having their very own dialects of Greek, like all that. It was actually broadly unfold out. And we simply now put all of it below one umbrella of historic Greece.
Meredith: So for the sources that aren’t from Athens of that point, have they at all times been round and simply of much less curiosity? Or have been these different areas simply a lot much less prolific that we have now to try to surmise issues in regards to the tradition versus Athens?
There’s such a physique of labor we will actually dig in. Like why haven’t we targeted extra exterior of Athens but?
Liv: I’m much less sure about that. That’s extra of a query for academia, I feel, and particularly additionally how a lot exists from past Athens. Broadly, as a result of I’m researching Sparta now, I’ve a greater concept of that. And in relation to Sparta, virtually every part we learn about Sparta was really written not by Spartans in any respect. Most of it was by Athenians who have been their enemies. So it’s actually attention-grabbing attempting to piece aside what occurred in Sparta. We’ve got writing from a few poets of Sparta, however simply poets. So we have now a little bit of poetry, nevertheless it doesn’t actually inform us something in regards to the society. So I might say it’s in all probability 90% that the work from Athens is what really survived, primarily as a result of Athens was a spot the place they have been extra serious about writing issues down for survival.
It wasn’t that they have been smarter or extra attention-grabbing, it’s simply that they have been particularly extra serious about issues which can be survivable now. They have been the massive place for the tragedies, the performs, and in order that’s what survives from there, that’s the place the philosophers have been. After which simply typically, a number of it isn’t coincidence as a result of you’ll be able to see why, nevertheless it isn’t as a result of they have been significantly particular. They have been like a powerhouse, however they’re additionally simply serious about stuff that occurs to outlive. But additionally the important thing to all of that is to ensure that one thing to outlive from the traditional world, a whole bunch of various individuals and teams should make aware selections for it to outlive, apart from a couple of actually uncommon circumstances. As a result of the bodily work from, say the Iliad and the Odyssey, the place it was in all probability written down within the seventh century, so like 600 BCE, to ensure that one thing to outlive from that point, it doesn’t simply survive within the kind that existed again then, as a result of for essentially the most half, until it was written all on clay tablets that by some means survived, which is unlikely, this stuff may have fallen aside.
And so it tends to be like individuals should have copied them for posterity. Lots of that is available in through the Byzantine interval the place that they had all these libraries and the Byzantines have been copying a number of stuff. So we have now the Byzantine interval and that space to thank for many of what survives in the present day. And so like lots over time, so many alternative individuals needed to make these selections to maintain copying these works in order that they survive. So it’s additionally prefer it was as a result of the Athenians wrote down a number of issues. After which it was as a result of these totally different individuals have been within the Athenians writing. After which subsequent, like a whole bunch of years later, these individuals have been . So it’s only a collection of various folks that we have now no management over having to have determined that they wish to hold a factor excluding actually uncommon issues, however actually attention-grabbing ones. So we all know that there have been a ton of Tragedians writing these Greek tragedies yearly, that they had this massive theater pageant, and so they carried out a bunch of them yearly.
We’ve got a bunch, we all know a bunch of names of people that wrote them down, or who created these performs, however we solely have surviving performs from three totally different individuals. East Coast and Sophocles, we have now, I feel it’s like between six and 9 performs that survive from every of them that we will learn now. And people gained’t survive. And the identical normal quantity from Euripides survive as a result of they have been taught in Byzantine colleges. So the Byzantine college system used them to show their college students. And so we have now all these copies that have been capable of survive as a result of the Byzantines, who have been in all probability what they have been virtually a thousand years after, if not like near that, as a result of they have been selecting to check this stuff, they survived for us in the present day.
Excluding Euripides the place he had a bunch of performs the place they weren’t taught in class. So that they’re the performs that like lots much less individuals cared about, they have been much less widespread, individuals in all probability thought they have been dangerous it’s like several filmmaker or artist inventive now, you’re gonna have works that aren’t very best, and individuals are not going to recollect them or they’re, and it’s not going to be for good causes. And on your sake, for the opposite playwrights, we don’t know what their work was dangerous, we don’t know the dangerous ones as a result of they’re misplaced. By Euripides, we have now a bunch that survived as a result of this Byzantine collector had all of Euripides’ performs on these scrolls. And the scrolls every contained I don’t know, a handful, perhaps 10 performs in a single scroll. They have been alphabetical. And one among his scrolls survives. So it’s like English letters H by Okay, I feel or one thing. It’s like just a few totally different letters within the alphabet that this one’s this one scroll survives.
And so we now have I feel it’s like perhaps 10 of Euripides’ performs which can be meh, they’re those that individuals didn’t love within the historic world. We’re not finding out in colleges. They’re simply the random performs on this letter group. And so they’re referred to as the alphabet performs now. And principally, as a result of this one factor managed to outlive, not deliberately, it was random, we have now all these performs that we wouldn’t in any other case have. And we have now this indication that not every part was excellent. However that stated, too, we have now these performs that weren’t beloved within the historic world, however are like, so fascinating to check now.
So one among them is Helen, which I’ve lined on the present. And Helen is so attention-grabbing, as a result of it’s this alternate universe of the Trojan Struggle, the place Helen doesn’t go to Troy in any respect, this ghost model of her goes to troy. And as an alternative, she is dropped at Egypt, the place she simply likes residing, ready all of it out for all of that point. And we might not have that play in any other case, as a result of no person cared about it within the historic world. However we have now it now. And it’s fascinating and peculiar and funky. And it’s simply utterly random, dumb luck that we even have it to learn in the present day. I’m actually obsessive about the alphabet, if that isn’t apparent.
Meredith: So if you had Emily, of the Fuck Boys of Literature on, and that was the primary time that I actually heard about this. And also you have been speaking about the concept there’s actually solely like a handful of the best hits that have been actually preserved and survived. However there are such a lot of different texts from this time that we simply don’t have entry to.
And it actually blew my thoughts. However you speaking in regards to the different universe Helen of Troy play, it makes me give it some thought. And in 500 years, individuals are like finding out our Netflix cues for all times claims about our tradition. And it’s yeah, these weren’t that good. Nobody was that into them. However we did watch them after dinner generally.
Liv: Yeah, no, there’s simply a lot. And I feel we have now this concept that every part from the traditional world is good and engaging and funky. But it surely’s that’s as a result of that’s the stuff that sufficient individuals determined was good and engaging and funky that it exists in the present day. And in the present day, we don’t take into consideration that as a result of every part is inherently a lot extra preservable between the web and identical to the standard of books and all these various things, prefer it’s simply so totally different. However again then with the issues that that they had and the writing constructions and the overall custom, which was like, particularly with artwork on this means, the custom was to not write it down.
The custom was to simply go sing it to your pals. And so it needed to be actually deliberately written down as a result of there was like a goal behind it. However what’s actually fascinating is how we all know all of the issues that we don’t know, as a result of there’s acquired to be lots that we don’t know existed, nevertheless it did, however we’ll by no means know. However there’s lots that we all know existed and it’s misplaced. And that’s simply because different individuals would reference it of their writing and their writing survives.
So any person can be like, so there’s this poet, there’s these two poets the place they wrote a ton, however not a number of it survives. Pherecrates is one and Simonides is one other. Pherecrates, I feel is the one I’m pondering of the place it’s we all know he wrote a lot mythology, however virtually nothing survives in full. Whereas as an alternative, it’s any person like, say, Pseudo-Apollodorus was like, Pherecrates wrote this complete story about this and this. However we don’t have it, we all know it existed as a result of apollodorus wrote that it existed. So we like know that he learn it, however we will’t learn it. And I feel really it would even be Pherecrates, any person wrote a model of this story the place Helen doesn’t go to Troy, this ghost of her goes. We all know that it wasn’t invented by Euripides. He acquired the concept from an earlier poet, however not a lot of that poet’s work survives. We simply understand it existed in any respect.
Meredith: Oh my God. Have you ever seen the play Arcadia by Tom Stoppard? It’s my all time favourite performs and perhaps one among my all time favourite works of literature. And there’s a, one of many essential characters in it’s she’s within the 1800s. And he or she’s obsessed and so saddened to the, to distraction by all of those historic texts that have been misplaced and fires and it’s, and really in some methods the play is about like humanity coming to grips with the truth that we’ll lose and overlook issues on a regular basis and we have now to love reinvent it always.
And this dialog is making me take into consideration that lots.
Liv: Yeah. I take into consideration this stuff all the time. Like I’ve a working record of all of the Euripides performs that I do know existed, however I can’t learn and I’m mad about it on a regular basis. However there’s additionally so many massive query marks about like variations of tales or one factor that’s come up for me just lately is there’s this actually well-known fantasy of Cupid and Psyche and everybody thinks of Cupid and Psyche or definitely everybody in my circles. It’s a very main story, however the one model we have now that tells that story is written by a Roman novelist named Apuleus.
And I feel it’s fairly clear that he made most of it up, however we will’t make sure. There’s no proof that the story of their complete relationship existed in any comparable means within the Greek world. And so we have now to imagine that he made it up. But additionally he may have learn one other factor and developed his story based mostly off of that’s misplaced and we’ll by no means know. Or the little bit of the Trojan Struggle the place the Malicious program exists and the place Achilles, will get the arrow by his heel and we get all that, all of that stuff that’s like essentially the most well-known elements of the Trojan Struggle. None of that truly exists in an historic Greek supply that survives. It exists in a Roman supply. And we all know that he was basing his work off of Greek sources that survived for him, however don’t survive for us now. So we all know the Malicious program and Achilles’ heel existed in Greek mythology and in Greek historical past, however we don’t even have that bodily work.
Meredith: I don’t need this to be an excessively gimmicky query. However I might hate getting a query like this for the document. However in the event you solely protect one Greek fantasy for the following millennia have you learnt which one it will be?
Liv: Oh, I do know I’ve a solution. I don’t suppose it’s like an amazing reply based mostly on a ton of various elements that in all probability needs to be put into such an essential query. However I might simply say the Odyssey as a result of it’s nice. And I really like the Odyssey. Yeah. In order that’s my favourite straightforward go-to. No, Greek fantasy, use a Greek fantasy. So I’m going to say the Odyssey. Yeah. As a result of in any other case, I might have stated Euripides play, however performs are totally different. They don’t rely. It’s positive.
Meredith: And with out the Odyssey, you’ll by no means have had your VHS mini collection.
Liv: Precisely. Yeah, I might have by no means change into this. It’s nonetheless my favourite Greek epic. Odysseus is my problematic love. He does a number of dangerous issues and I really like him eternally. Yeah, it’s all of the Odyssey for me. I do know we don’t have an excessive amount of time left. And I’ve, I’m sorry, I rant lots.
Meredith: I liked it. And I presume. So I wish to speak a little bit bit about Medusa with you. And I do know that it’s one thing that you just talked a couple of bit. You’ve talked with different company and had actually attention-grabbing questions and conversations round. And I additionally know I’m not on Twitter, however I do know you’ve talked about on the podcast that that is one which for you appears to mild up your Twitter everytime you’re tweeting about Medusa.
And I, I don’t know, I’ve at all times been actually drawn to it for some cause. And I shouldn’t say it for some cause. I feel there’s a number of complicated issues about ladies’s energy in that fantasy. And it actually hits on some archetypal nerves in a number of methods. So perhaps you would give us a one minute abstract of Medusa. And like, why do you suppose it hits such a nerve with people in the present day?
Liv: Okay, I’m going to do it actually, it’s going to be fast. And thus I’ll communicate a number of phrases very quick. So Medusa, oh gosh, there’s a lot. So the earliest type of Medusa is that this man named Hesiod. And he says that she was a Gorgon. He doesn’t describe what a Gorgon was. He says that she’s a Gorgon who was born to Forkis and Keto, who’re like sea monster goddesses or gods and goddesses.
After which he says that she suffered a woeful destiny. She was primarily assaulted by Poseidon and like ultimately Perseus lower her head off. And in order that’s just like the earliest type of her story, like primarily all of it. After which like a bunch of various issues change, there’s a couple of totally different variations of it. However the massive one which will get picked up is Ovid, who’s a Roman writer, he’s writing in all probability a minimum of seven or 800 years after Hesiod wrote that earlier bit.
And Ovid has this complete story the place really she’s this stunning girl and she or he’s a priestess of Athena and Poseidon once more assaults her however in Athena’s temple after which she will get punished by Athena for that her hair turns to snakes and she or he turns individuals to stone. After which once more, Perseus comes and kills her. And so these are just like the fundamentals of it. However what individuals I feel take maintain due to popular culture and so many alternative issues is this concept that she’s this terrifying monster who’s out to harm individuals and deserves dying by Perseus. However none of that truly exists within the Greek fantasy. That was in all probability a minute.
Meredith: No, that’s so just like the bizarre story in that within the telling of it, she’s punished for being assaulted primarily.
Liv: In Ovid. Yeah.
Meredith: Okay. However then prefer it’s there’s this cultural understanding of her as this monster who loves turning individuals to stone.
Liv: Yeah, none of that exists in Greek fantasy and actuality in historic Greek sources. So earlier than Ovid and never Ovid, she will not be ever proven as hurting anyone. We don’t know that she turned anyone to stone. We simply know that she may.
Yeah, like we don’t have proof that she ever did it. We simply know that like bodily she may and we actually solely know that as a result of her head afterwards turns issues to stone. However till her head is bodily caught from her physique, she doesn’t really hurt anyone. And Perseus will not be despatched to kill her as a result of she’s harmful.
That’s a very frequent false impression. Like he’s not despatched there as a result of she’s inflicting bother or like she’s harming individuals. He’s despatched there as a result of this king of Seriphos desires him lifeless in order that he can marry Perseus’s mother. And the way in which that he thinks he can kill off Perseus with out angering the mom is to simply be like, hey, go get me her head, show that you just’re a hero, go convey me Medusa’s head. So it’s purely that he wants the top. It’s not like stopping any hurt or saving anyone. Prefer it’s simply completely randomly picked as a result of he, like this king, thinks that it’s going to kill Perseus to get her head.
However yeah, so like this complete concept develops that she’s like individuals on Twitter have advised me by individuals, I imply males, have advised me that like the rationale she needed to be killed is as a result of she was terrorizing the lands and like her dying alleviated a stress on the earth. And it’s all in your head, dude. And I can see your misogyny exhibiting like what are you speaking about? Nothing about that exists in Greek fantasy. The worst we have now is in Ovid the place she is surrounded by statues and the implication is that she turned individuals to stone. However once more, that’s solely an Ovid and he’s already made her a sufferer of assault. Like he already makes her a sympathetic character. So it doesn’t even add something to the argument that she hurts individuals.
Meredith: All proper, perhaps this can be a good method to wrap it up is that I really like the Greek myths. I’m a really linear thinker. And one factor that I discover complicated about them is I’m like, the place do I begin? Like, how do I, proper now, it usually appears to me like, it’s like attempting to grasp an eight season TV present by beginning in season 4. So if somebody was like, I actually desire a foundational understanding of the who’s who and the fundamental narrative right here, the place would you set them?
Liv: Oh so the primary factor I inform individuals if you’re coming to Greek fantasy is you’ll be able to’t have that viewpoint. If you wish to really perceive it from the traditional world, if you wish to perceive it by a totally fashionable perspective, however lose all the historic nuance, then you’ll be able to decide up any e book of Greek myths. I might suggest one written by a lady as a result of we have a tendency to have the ability to push apart a number of the misogyny. Edith Hamilton is fairly good. It’s very outdated. So it does have extra of that.
I wrote one, nevertheless it’s very floor degree. So there’s books. However the factor about Greek fantasy is that again to the oral storytelling I discussed, that’s the means that they supposed the tales to be understood. And it was by no means about linearity. It was by no means about narrative construction. It was by no means about principally it’s important to overlook every part you suppose about what a narrative or a story needs to be. As a result of that was not the intention of any of those. Like they have been advised to identical to share tales round a hearth or to clarify one thing within the pure world or to clarify the significance of sure areas and cities.
Like each space of historic Greece has some story linked them to Heracles as a result of he was just like the hero for all Greece. And they also would all make up their very own tales of how he was linked to their tradition. And sometimes it’s 5 phrases. And that’s like an entire story. As a result of it didn’t, it wasn’t about what we consider as tales. It was in regards to the total like goal of what was being shared. So I feel one of the simplest ways to grasp it by way of the traditional world is to disregard every part you suppose you wish to learn about tales and to simply decide up something actually. However I perceive that that’s tough.
So there are like, gods, I don’t know, there’s simply there’s an excessive amount of to know to place it into one straightforward factor. I feel my present is an effective reference level as a result of you’ll be able to virtually begin on any episode, so long as it’s not one that claims like half two of three in, within the title. And I’m going to present you sufficient background and stuff. However I feel that the important thing and what I feel makes the way in which I’m coming at these myths, significantly related for the myths themselves, is the way in which that they initially have been meant to be advised, which is that it wasn’t about this construction, it wasn’t about understanding all of it. You can’t have in your head a timeline as a result of timelines didn’t exist.
As a result of these tales have been advised over 800 years. Lots modifications over 800 years. So it’s simply not about, it’s not about dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s as a result of that they didn’t care. It was like 800 years of tradition melded into these tales. And so the way in which I do it’s story based mostly. So you’ll be able to simply click on a narrative you wish to hear. But additionally, I give sufficient background and historical past and all these totally different variations and why and every part. So I feel, yeah, I’ve a number of episodes to take heed to it’s daunting. However I feel that’s a great way to grasp the way it labored and why as a result of it’s a lot extra attention-grabbing in the event you perceive the why.
Meredith: All proper. That’s fascinating. Is there a selected episode of yours that you just play in the event you simply wish to dip your toes and begin right here?
Liv: Let’s say the Theogony, not my first episode, which can also be in regards to the Theogony, however I did one final 12 months or the 12 months earlier than the place I went again and I did a way more detailed take a look at the Theogony. And I ought to clarify what the Theogony means. It actually simply means just like the start of the gods.
So primarily, it’s just like the origin story of all the gods. So it introduces a bunch of individuals and the place they arrive from and why and yeah, I don’t know. There’s simply, there’s a lot. There’s an excessive amount of.
Meredith: No, we will discover that Theogony and put it within the present notes for positive. And I might additionally say I really like your e book. So I’ve your e book. It’s referred to as Greek mythology, the gods goddesses and heroes handbook. Illustrations are attractive.
I discovered it a useful reference level. I’m positively like at occasions like, wait, who is that this individual? And so I, for what it’s price, I’d actually suggest that to you. It’s actually been useful and simply so enjoyable to web page by for me.
Liv: Thanks. I feel it’s in all probability, I consider it as being so floor degree and no matter. Additionally, I used to be commissioned to write down it. However that’s why I speak about it like that. And I adore it to be clear. However yeah, I do suppose it in all probability is a very good start line as a result of additionally the entire commissioning facet of it from the writer was that they needed a e book that additionally connects in like the place you would possibly know sure characters from popular culture, which is an effective method to get a grip on what you’re studying and what names you would possibly bear in mind or acknowledge and issues like that. So all of that’s within the e book.
And it does cowl a number of form of the introductory degree myths and just like the gods and, why try to be and what their sort of main tales have been. So yeah, perhaps my e book is an ideal introduction.
Meredith: All proper thanks a lot, Liv. We’ll hyperlink within the present notes every part you gave us a trillion nice references. We’ll attempt to get in there. And I really feel like I may have picked your mind about these items for hours. You’re such a font of knowledge. Thanks for a way beneficiant you’re together with your data and your expertise.
Liv: Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. I hope I talked sufficient about content material fairly than Greek myths, however I may in all probability speak about Greek myths eternally.
Meredith: Thanks.
Liv: Thanks.
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Meredith: Okay, everybody, we hope that you just loved our dialog with Liv as a lot as we did.
Ian: Subsequent week, we’ll be speaking with one other podcaster and YouTuber Caroline Winkler.
Meredith: Caroline has a very inventive, fantastic YouTube channel with greater than 400,000 subscribers. We talked to her about what it’s wish to have a profitable profession on YouTube and her new podcast, Not For Everybody.
To assist this present, you’ll be able to price, evaluation and subscribe. These issues make an enormous distinction. And in the event you’d like in the present day’s dialog, you’d in all probability just like the content material individuals publication, subscribe on the hyperlink within the present notes.
Ian: And that’s it people. Thanks a lot for listening.
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