Present Synopsis
Content material Folks is a podcast about being leaders, entrepreneurs and creators in a world that wishes to paint contained in the traces. Be part of us and learn how to interrupt the foundations in all the most effective methods.
Episode #2 Abstract
In our chat with Atoosa Rubenstein, we discover how burnout can creep into even essentially the most spectacular profession — and the way authenticity, self-care and actual artwork can save the day. We additionally get a few of the most enjoyable tales from Atoosa’s time as an editor-in-chief — a peek backstage of a artistic thoughts — and learn the way she endeavored to assist individuals through the use of her work.
Content material Folks: Burnout, Meditation and How To Select Your self
A few of right this moment’s greatest Content material Folks can hint their artistic inspiration again to Atoosa Rubenstein. At simply 26 years outdated, Atoosa was editor-in-chief of “CosmoGirl and “Seventeen.” With out her, a variety of the storytellers we take pleasure in right this moment would possibly by no means have embraced their pure abilities.
And the place did all that inspiration come from, you ask? Easy: her letters from the editor. Open, weak and stuffed with the form of honesty that makes content material come to life, these letters kick-started numerous spectacular careers — together with Atoosa’s.
Although she’s not editor-in-chief, Atoosa continues to be telling tales that matter. She’s fearless, guys. And the best way she explores delicate subjects — it’s one thing all content material creators can be taught from. Atoosa even offers us her secret to avoiding a creator’s worst enemy: burnout. Pay attention alongside as we uncover how her private journey helped illuminate self-care options (like journaling) that simply make sense:
View on Zencastr
However don’t fear — this isn’t all about work and burnout. We additionally discuss expertise. And mates who backstab you at camp. And brushing your emotional tooth. Oh, and content material creation, after all.
Thanks for stopping by. And don’t neglect to take a web page from Atoosa’s e-book and inform us the uncooked, sincere reality concerning the podcast.
Extra Content material for Content material Folks
Atoosa Unedited: Subscribe to Atoosa’s publication for a weekly dose of inspiration and honesty.
Atoosa’s TEDx Discuss: Watch “Leaving It All to Have It All.”
Donald Robertson: Try @drawbertson on Instagram.
Julia Cameron: Strive Morning Pages to filter the ol’ pipes.
Brafton: Go to Atoosa’s (self-proclaimed) new greatest mates for extra data and free content material.
Podcast Transcript:
Meredith Farley:
Hello everybody. Welcome to Content material Folks, a podcast the place we discuss to good individuals about artistic work, artistic management, and their profession journeys. This podcast is produced by Brafton. Brafton is a content material advertising and marketing firm powered by a worldwide crew of artistic professionals and advertising and marketing specialists.
My identify is Meredith Farley. I’m the COO at Brafton. I oversee our artistic manufacturing and repair groups, and I’m right here with Ian Servin. Hey, Ian.
Ian Servin:
Hey everyone.
Meredith:
Ian’s our artistic director of video who’s producing this podcast. Thanks very a lot for doing that, Ian.
Ian:
Completely. And I believe we have now a very thrilling episode with Atoosa.I learn the slate profile that was about her form of return and I can’t consider we received her on the present.
Meredith:
I do know I’m like over the moon. So for these of you who don’t know, Atoosa Rubenstein is the previous editor-in-Chief of Seventeen Journal and the founding editor of Cosmo Lady. She was tremendous younger when she did all of that. I believe she was 26 or at 26, she turned the youngest journal editor in chief at Hearst over their 100 12 months historical past. After which she went on and did actually cool stuff. Like she government produced a MTV sequence, Miss Seventeen, and now Atoosa has just lately launched her personal Substack, it’s Atoosa Unedited.
For these of you who knew or have been conversant in Atoosa earlier than, she used to write down these actually weak, sincere, extremely compelling letters from the editor. And I believe that actually resonated with so many pre-teen and teenage women who have been studying these magazines and so they felt like they knew her. And I really feel like this Substack that she’s engaged on is like the brand new model of that.
She was so superior to speak to and yeah, like what did you consider the dialog?
Ian:
I believed it was actually nice. I imply, she not solely has this actually superior background, proper? She completed a lot, however she additionally skilled burnout and that comes with a very compressed form of preliminary begin to her profession.
And so she realized a lot from that, however she was additionally working, you already know, on the highest ranges of those magazines. And so she additionally realized quite a bit about what really makes actually good content material. I believe her factors about shallow versus deep content material and what it takes to provide deep content material. I believe these are nice classes, not only for individuals working at magazines or, or, you already know, digital websites, however you already know, any content material marketer can actually take these to coronary heart.
Meredith:
Yeah. No, I, I completely agree. And so the Slate profile Ian talked about, we’ll put the hyperlink to that within the bio and we will additionally put the hyperlink to her Substack as effectively. It was, I believe the slate profile was perhaps final January or round then. I believe that’s proper. It form of introduced, so Atoosa when she was 35, she retired. I believe that’s kinda the burnout you’re speaking round too, Ian.
She was like, I’m accomplished. And she or he form of left the general public eye and the Substack is her form of step again right into a extra public determine place. I liked that once we received to speak to Atoosa about TikTok. It’s so fascinating to get her perspective on how modern-day algorithms, the net search and Google relevance has completely influenced the best way that we plan content material. And I believed she had actually very considerate insights and was actually open and sincere with us about a variety of issues.
So I believed it was such a enjoyable dialog. I actually hope that you simply guys all take pleasure in it and you already know, we’re simply beginning out on our Content material Folks podcast journey and hope you keep on with us and that you simply take pleasure in our convo with Atoosa.
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Meredith:
Hello Atoosa. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of Content material Folks. I’m actually excited to have you ever on. You meant quite a bit to me rising up. I used to be a Cosmo lady, and Seventeen subscriber.
Atoosa Rubenstein:
I like that. Thanks.
Meredith:
I used to be born in New York Metropolis, however we moved to upstate New York once I was about 5 and studying the, you already know, getting the magazines, like studying your notes, it felt like unspeakably, unspeakably, like glamorous to me.
Atoosa:
Mm-hmm.
Meredith:
…it was the glimpse of the life that I used to be you already know, seeing by way of the pages, but in addition your you already know, your, your letters each month have been so inspiring and felt very actual. And I do know it wasn’t simply me, it was my mates too. We’d get them, we might maintain the magazines and have them round and I believe the Slate article about you final 12 months, towards the top of final 12 months actually form of introduced you again into my consciousness a bit. And I, I mirrored a bit and I believed, man, I don’t assume I’d completely consciously clocked how a lot you had influenced my ideas on profession and love of content material and the considered being an editor.
And so if you began your Substack, I used to be tremendous thrilled and I’ve liked having Atoosa content material again in my life.
Atoosa:
Aw, that’s so candy. Thanks.
Meredith:
So thanks a lot. And I really feel like there may be such a really actual Atoosa impact. I’m not alone in being of the technology of girls that you simply impacted and influenced, like, why do you assume you encourage a lot devotion and fandom amongst your readers? As a result of that’s such an actual factor.
Atoosa:
That’s so candy. I imply, I can’t consider it inside that context however I can’t deny that there’s an Instagram website that’s well-liked referred to as Thanks Atoosa proper? It’s not referred to as Thanks Valerie. Or Thanks Anne Marie, or Thanks. You realize, someone else who was an editor on the time.
Thanks Anne.
I believe that I used to be most likely the primary particular person to nearly deliver this, like, nearly like actuality, like we turned, we turned acquainted in time with actuality tv, however I form of introduced this dose of actuality to the journal house. As a result of for me too, it was a dream come true.
You realize? And that was, that was the context. For me of that life. Like I, you already know, there are some people who find themselves all the time going for the Gold Star and so they’re like, I’m gonna be an editor in chief and blah, blah, blah. For me, it had simply extra of a fantastical, magical high quality to it from, from each, from the get-go as a reader studying the magazines, I too thought that they have been, they have been, they have been a really particular, magical portal into one other world.
For me that was a preferable world than the world that I used to be rising up in. After which additionally all through the method, you already know, there wasn’t a second that I wasn’t form of having an outer physique expertise like that is, fucking cool. Like, you already know, even when my bosses would ask me to do issues like get my dry cleansing, I used to be like, rattling, straight I’m getting your dry cleansing. Trigger you’re the most effective. You realize? And so I had that enthusiasm and I believe that I communicated that enthusiasm once I turned an editor-in-chief to the women in a form of an actual manner, versus pretending to be a grownup, as a result of I used to be additionally 26. You realize, the opposite editors in chief have been the age I’m right this moment, they have been actual grownups with households and this and that, and I used to be similar to, felt nonetheless like Cinderella on the ball and that that power was most likely contagious.
Meredith:
Yeah. Gosh, that makes a lot sense as a result of as you’re speaking, I’m pondering you, effectively, what you say about actuality television, form of beginning across the similar time like perhaps everybody was form of like beginning to perhaps, effectively it’s humorous, I don’t wanna say actuality TV is authenticity, however the concept of like, yeah, we wished one thing extra actual and like a peek backstage.
And also you, you have been a lot, you have been so that you, we may really feel your enthusiasm. And to your level, it was, you already know, it wasn’t like tremendous curated already dwelling and feeling a part of, and taking with no consideration just like the, the superior life-style of like actually, you already know, individuals who’d been doing the job for 30 years. Like that, that realness got here by way of.
Atoosa:
I don’t even assume they shared their life-style, you already know, like once I was a style editor. So previous to your, me being form of in your ether I bear in mind they might put me in style tales That was very uncommon. Right this moment, if you look in the back of Folks Journal, you typically see Andrea who’s like, I believe the wonder director, like all of these women giving their favourite merchandise, their favourite garments, their concepts.
That shit wasn’t taking place again then. So in just like the late nineties when Cosmo was kinda placing me of their style tales and naming me, that additionally helped form of construct my star and my mystique even throughout the trade. You realize, so just like the form of the making of the it lady, and also you wanna know who really began that entire factor with me is, have you learnt the artist Donald Robertson? He’s very massive on Instagram.
Meredith:
No, however…
Atoosa:
He’s like big. I believe they name, it’s like Donald Drawbertson is his Instagram identify, however he, on the time, he’s big now, was the artistic director of Politico. And he similar to, form of noticed me someday and was like, you, and he likes to say he found me within the style closet.
However he did, he put me in entrance of the digicam after which from there, you already know, every thing took off.
Meredith:
Wow. We will look him up and throw his Instagram within the present notes. That’s actually cool. I believe, I imply, and in addition I do know in, in your communications and letters to the readers, you’re, you have been so weak and it felt very, you already know, you shared like, that you simply confirmed footage, such as you have been like, I’m not the right, like just like the glamorous particular person we noticed wasn’t your historical past and also you have been so sharing about that. And I believe it helped individuals really feel related to you and in your Substack. I really feel such as you’ve been so, what feels to me like so uncooked in a manner that’s very beneficiant. I’m curious again then and now, do you ever really feel nervous or uncertain earlier than you hit ship?
Atoosa:
Yeah. Like, you already know, again then if you have been youthful and I used to be youthful you already know, I actually had consciousness of issues in my life that I wasn’t sharing, proper? Whether or not it was incest from my childhood or the adultery frankly, that I used to be experiencing as an editor in chief.
However I wasn’t able to share it. And it additionally I don’t know that the incest would’ve been above everyone, the, the viewers’s head, however it was quite a bit. And I’m unsure that that’s at that age. I don’t know that it could’ve, it was, it was actually, I used to be not able to share any of it. And so what feels so lovely and form of like a lot organicity to it’s that now that you’re older and you’ll hear my reality I may share it.
You realize, I each have the form of emotional musculature to share it and you’ve got the emotional musculature to obtain it and, and, and hopefully share again throughout the neighborhood. However no, nothing’s ever been arduous. Issues have been sticky. Like, like a joke I’ll inform you from if you have been a youngster.
I bear in mind like one among our first problems with Cosmo lady, I wrote about how this buddy of mine completely backstabbed me and I am going into element and my youngsters, I’ve now a youngster and 9 12 months olds, and so they love this story of how this lady simply completely screwed me over at camp. She was my greatest buddy and I wrote it within the factor and actually, Just like the week earlier than the problem got here out, this lady reaches out to me after many, many, a few years. I imply, we have been 12 years outdated final time I talked to her saying, you have been my greatest buddy. You have been this, you have been that. I used to be like, oh shit this story would possibly really feel acquainted to you. I by no means heard from her once more.
I nonetheless consider her and I nonetheless hope to someday reconnect. However now that, anyway, so sure. No, I by no means, and in reality, subsequent week, I imply now that we’re, you already know, we’re speaking about Rob, Rob Wade, and that’s so, a lot within the information. You realize, there may be like, I, I did terminate a being pregnant whereas I used to be working and I used to be pregnant in one of the crucial well-known footage of. Like those that’s like throughout like that, it’s form of like one of many footage individuals use once they’re writing about me and I used to be pregnant and with a child that, you already know, I didn’t take the time period. And so in form of like excited about that now, like that’s a very dicey topic, proper? No person is aware of this.
Actually no one is aware of aside from my greatest, greatest buddy, one buddy. So I don’t really feel scared, however I positively wanna do the story justice.
Meredith:
Yeah. Is it one thing that you simply really feel like you have an interest to discover like by way of your Substack, by way of your communication?
Atoosa:
Yeah. Yeah. I’ll write about it on this week’s Substack. So Sunday my, my, on this second, my expectation is it will likely be on that matter, it will likely be form of about that image and perhaps what was happening for me. And, and simply to form of discover, you already know, the significance of selection and in addition the place for grief in our society usually. So, you already know, for me it’s all the time like, it’s not fairly, so it all the time goes on a bit little bit of a path. Emotionally, I haven’t explored it but, however once we get off, that’s what I’ll be doing.
Meredith:
Wow. Yeah. Effectively I believe that it’s, it’s fascinating what you say about form of, you already know, perhaps individuals my age who’re older now and form of come together with you and are extra in a spot to obtain these tales and the reality of your expertise there. I really feel prefer it’s actually significant and cathartic in a variety of methods for lots of various individuals to listen to you be so sincere about these. Troublesome and painful, however very actual and never singular experiences in some methods.
Atoosa:
I do really feel like a part of, you already know, one of many points with this explicit matter is everyone desires to help the rights, you already know, however no one form of desires to say, Hey, I had this occurred to me and right here’s why. And I really feel prefer it’s throughout the private tales and, and you already know you already know, how, how may somebody like me get right into a place like that?
Like I used to be very profitable. I used to be good. It wasn’t like I used to be a teenage lady who didn’t know any higher, however like, if you form of take the historical past of abuse and you already know, the totally different ways in which I used to be anesthetizing myself and, you already know, what would my, you already know, simply the various issues that may’ve been impacted had I stored that being pregnant.
I imply, I simply assume it’s, I believe it’s a sophisticated difficulty and I believe if we will all share our complexities with one another as a society usually, not simply on this matter, on all subjects you already know, there’s, there’s simply, I believe there could possibly be a lot extra simply compassion for one another and acceptance and, and I hope, you already know, peace and freedom inside that.
Meredith:
Yeah, completely. And I believe one factor I actually respect about a variety of what you’ve been writing and placing out there may be that. , you’re not you already know, it’s, it’s not black and white. It’s, you’re not creating heroes and villains of your historical past or the experiences that you simply had. You’re being extremely sincere about what you’re feeling was like your, you already know, I don’t know, phrase I’m in search of, however form of your function in your private historical past but in addition actually in an inspiring manner, speaking too about how you’re form of embracing self-love and compassion for every thing that you simply survived and went by way of. And I believe it’s such a, I discover it therapeutic to learn a few of these issues myself simply because it’s very. . I, I believe so typically, effectively, I don’t wanna say so typically, no, however like traditionally as a tradition we’ve handled, or a society, we are inclined to deal with issues as so black and white.. you already know, I used to be incorrect right here, they have been incorrect there, et cetera. And you actually deliver compassion, love, and acceptance of ambiguity to a variety of subjects in, in a, a very considerate manner.
Is that one thing you do consciously?
Atoosa:
I consider that, I imply, you understand how many individuals, like when you consider the best way companions struggle, you already know, whether or not they’re married or simply in a relationship, there’s all the time like, someone like desires to win, like someone has to win. And actually we’re all proper as a result of we’re bringing to the desk all of our woundings, nonetheless massive or small. And if we will make house for all of our respective woundings I believe we will simply have compassion and. And respect for one, each other. And I really feel like that’s simply what I’ve realized. You realize, I’m 50 years outdated, I’ve gone by way of my share of life and there’s lots extra forward and never simply, what I’ve realized is that every thing is complicated.
You realize, there are not any heroes and villains, you already know, once I discuss my perpetrator for, you already know, for the incest that I survive, like I’ve a lot compassion for him. Trigger who does that? You realize, solely someone who’s very, very harm and you already know, can also be a sufferer of the ancestral household. Woundings, you already know, we’re all, we’re all survivors of our woundings and if we will simply form of make house for these, the tenderness. Not simply our personal, not solely form of armoring to guard our tenderness, however, however to have form of reverence for one another’s tenderness.
I suppose it isn’t, I’m not doing it. I by no means do something to show, like I don’t see myself as a instructor, however, you already know, it’s positively one thing I’ve realized. So, you already know, I’m positively modeling it. I positively mannequin it.
Meredith:
Yeah. One factor, and I really feel like I’m happening a barely totally different line of questioning than I’d initially had, however I’m actually interested by is that one factor I really feel like each in skilled environments and in private life, can, I believe, be troublesome to navigate is empathy, understanding, and compassion for why somebody did what they did, but in addition the suitable quantity of like boundaries and useful anger for your self. What’s your method to that?
Atoosa:
Effectively, I believe crucial factor is simply mindfulness. Like if you’re in your physique You realize, you possibly can navigate each by way of your personal woundings and what your consolation degree is, which is like, you already know, the wholesome boundaries that you simply’re speaking about too. But in addition simply be current with what’s over there. I believe a variety of instances once we’re not current, which most individuals sadly aren’t, as a result of as a tradition, we’re very uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. And in some methods we’re uncomfortable being uncomfortable emotionally, however we’re very comfy being uncomfortable.
Like with the exterior piece, like which means we’re taught at a younger age. You go to highschool, no one fucking likes faculty, proper? However it’s important to sit there and like, oh, it’s important to do your work though you don’t wanna do homework. Like at a younger age, you’re kinda taught to disregard your personal limits in some methods. And but however, however don’t talk your harm. You realize, don’t talk your discomfort. So we simply get all of those actually combined alerts as younger folks that I believe is vital to t simply form of detangle as we grow old. And for me, you already know, there’s no magic bullet in each scenario. First do that, then try this.
However for me, what has been a large sport changer is meditation. And other people say, oh, I meditate. However what they imply is I meditate. Like generally , you already know, like I’ve tried it. I attempt to, however meditation as a every day follow has utterly altered how I present up in each scenario in my life. Can I provide you with an instance?
Meredith:
Sure!
Atoosa:
So Final weekend I did this TED discuss, proper? TEDx discuss, and earlier than the entire shebang began. The entire forged, which means all of the audio system are on stage, they’re like, so there’s a finale track and we’re all gonna, it’s like track about pleasure and we’re all gonna sing the track. We’re clapping and we’re holding fingers. Now you and I don’t know one another that effectively. That sounds just like the, my largest nightmare come true. Okay. I’m like horrified, like, I’m like, I nonetheless have part of me that, you already know, like has to have like a bit little bit of a cool, you already know, so like this concept of being like, yeah, pleasure, you already know, blah, blah, blah. Like on stage, like, I dunno, like, and I mentioned, and so I used to be on this place as soon as. Years in the past at a Deliberate Parenthood factor I used to be getting an award at, and Natalie Service provider, who’s one among my all-time heroes, pulls me on stage to sing with the remainder of the honorees. And I used to be like holding her hand nonetheless pondering, can I die proper now?
It was like, the worst. I’ve PTSD from it. And so I pulled them apart and I used to be very pleased with myself. I used to be like, so I’m not gonna be doing this. And so they have been like, and I didn’t take a imply manner. And so they have been similar to, however everybody’s doing it, together with just like the movie star and everybody’s doing it. I’m like, that’s nice for everybody. I’m not doing this as a result of I don’t really feel comfy. And like they simply have been like, and I used to be like, I simply needed to sit with that. I used to be like, that’s it. Then so I used to be feeling very pleased with myself after which I. Heard one of many different audio system and he was a refugee. And he was speaking about being othered, you already know, that when he was in Africa he was othered trigger he was homosexual.
When he got here right here throughout the homosexual neighborhood, he was othered. Trigger he’s a refugee throughout the refugee neighborhood. He’s othered trigger he’s homosexual throughout the black neighborhood. He’s othered as a result of he’s African. You realize, like all of different, and I spotted like, holy shit. Explanation for the meditation follow, due to my form of embodiment as I’m listening to him communicate, I mentioned, oh, I actually relate to this concept of different, I’ve all the time associated to it.
I’m othering myself by not being a part of this neighborhood on the finish. Wow. It’s like, I’m so scared. Of not becoming in and never being that form of like Lucy goosey joyful particular person, cuz I nonetheless am like a bit fashiony inside that’s not, that’s like the alternative kinda vibe. Yeah. And I mentioned, I’m othering myself.
And so my first thought was, okay, subsequent time I’ll make a unique selection. However once more, I’m nonetheless current. I’m embodied, I’m staying with myself. And I used to be like, effectively, the chance is that this time. That is the following time. And so I discovered the lady at proper earlier than the finale, and I used to be like, I’m sorry, I, I actually sat with it and I’ve modified my thoughts.I’m gonna do it now. The story isn’t, I did it and my gosh, I’m happening tour now. I’m becoming a member of a gospel choir. That is my future. No, I used to be un, I used to be uncomfortable, however I felt comfy within the step I used to be taking over behalf of myself and my very own progress and never othering myself as a result of I’ve been othered or trigger I felt othered, not like permitting this trauma from my previous to simply be shifted a bit bit and for me to have a bit management over it versus it having management over me.
And in order that’s like a really totally different story than what you’re asking me about, however it what it’s, the connection is embodiment. And once we might be as embodied as attainable, and that’s not all the time straightforward. You realize then we will actually each maintain our boundaries in a wholesome manner and still have compassion and empathy for whomever we’re in neighborhood with and present up for them.
And I really consider meditation is the magic bullet.
Meredith:
I like that story. Thanks a lot for sharing it. And I like too that it’s like, it’s a two step course of the place first you’re, I believe you’re, you’re in your physique. You’re like, what are my boundaries? I’m not gonna power myself to, I might really feel the identical. I’d be like, please God, something to not try this. And then you definately like, sit with it additional and dig deeper and actually hear after which form of really, you already know, step out of these boundaries a bit bit. That’s, I imply, it’s lovely
Atoosa:
I’m positive you’ve heard of IFS, prefer it’s a form of remedy, Inside household techniques. It’s gotten extremely popular now, however it’s just like the form of remedy I’ve all the time accomplished, like once I was working as effectively. And so, you already know, principally, trigger I went by way of it with my therapist afterward and, and the best way he form of broke it down was like, first I advocated for my younger half that was afraid. And by advocating for that younger half, I form of was like, it’s okay, Atoosa. Like I received you. After which like a extra grownup half was capable of come out and form of hear him, hear the man that was talking about, about his othering. After which an older half was capable of then advocate for, you already know, the form of the place that I wanna be heading towards, which isn’t essentially being led by my wounded elements.
And finally that’s, that occurs a lot on the workplace, proper? Like, I imply, individuals simply step on our wounded elements after which we’re similar to, it, you already know, turns into these items that’s simply you already know, my wounding versus your wounding. And, and I do assume that I believe that for me, meditation, like I, I didn’t meditate once I was working in any respect. This meditation follow is form of new. It’s like throughout the previous six months. And it’s been a sport changer.
Meredith:
So yeah. I imply, the internal little one work, I completely agree. I, I attempt to do a little bit of it and I, I agree with you that our internal kids are, you already know, I believe there’s like authority figures, constructions, bosses, and people parental archetypes set off us so simply. And I’ve discovered that to be useful too. So, so what sort of meditation do you do? Is it transcendental or guided?
Atoosa:
I attempted that. I attempted every thing. Like I did that, such as you paid $1,200 and also you get your mantra. And by the best way, nearly yeah, nearly everyone I’ve ever met, like, who’s been naughty sufficient like me to share their mantra and have the identical mantra as me. I don’t wanna, shit, I don’t wanna shit on it. As a result of it really works for lots of people. For no matter purpose, it didn’t work for me. So I, it’s, I’m extra in like a form of mindfulness based mostly, so like Tara Brach, like Jack Kornfield, Jack Kornfield is like my North Star. So, you already know, day by day, like right this moment I did it, it could possibly be other ways. Like I, I would do like. 30 minute guided meditation with Jack from his web site. Right this moment there was a specific one I wished to do, however it was solely 11 minutes. So then I sat a further 20 minutes in silence. However crucial factor to me is it’s like this little tweak.
Lots of people discuss the way you get, simply gotta make room for it. Such as you’re doing one thing like consuming your broccoli if you hate broccoli. And for me, I do it persistently day by day as a result of it feels so good. I don’t imply afterward throughout it, all of it, it feels nearly like a orgasmic expertise of simply being free within myself. It, there form of isn’t a greater a part of my day.
I imply, I like seeing my kids, however on a egocentric degree, like that point within me with simply full freedom and no tethers to anyone it’s a present that I give myself day by day. And, and in case you, if we will simply see it as that it’s a therapeutic massage, it’s not broccoli.
It’s like brushing your tooth in your within you, you already know, such as you would by no means not brush your tooth. If I even have a look at my youngsters with out brushing my tooth within the morning, they’re like, get outta my face. So like, that’s like the very first thing I do is clearly brush my tooth after which the very first thing I do for my internal life is meditate.
Meredith: I meditate as effectively. I’ve solely up to now few months gotten like, actually into it. I maintain a tracker and I simply give myself a bit verify mark for the day. I discover satisfaction there and I’ve additionally discovered it actually transformative, however you’re inspiring me to be much more disciplined about it. I do know you additionally do your morning pages, proper?
Atoosa:
You realize, I’ve really taken a break from the morning pages, as a result of there’s solely a lot you are able to do. And I really feel like as my meditation follow has gotten deeper I haven’t had the house to do the morning pages. However I discover that the morning pages are actually useful for me and spurts of time, like when I’ve quite a bit happening. As a result of it simply is like an emptying of the pipes, you already know? And I simply really feel like proper now I don’t want them.
Like I bear in mind there was a time that I had discovered my husband had cheated on me. I occurred to have been doing, that is years and years in the past to, to over 10 years in the past, 12 years in the past. And I occurred to be doing morning pages on the time. Oh my God. It was so useful once I’ve gone by way of breakups. Oh my God. So useful. Now what I do is I simply have my morning web page’s pocket book round and at any time when I really feel one thing’s clogging the pipes. I’ll similar to pull it out and simply begin doing it spontaneously.
Meredith:
Wow. Yeah, I imply, it’s a fantastic device and for anybody listening who doesn’t know, it’s, I believe it’s Julia Cameron who wrote The Artist Method. She’s an enormous proponent of three lengthy hand pages very first thing. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that’s the e-book. Atoosa is holding up the e-book. . It’s an superior, an superior device, and perhaps we will hyperlink to it within the present notes for anybody who’s Oh, yeah, positive. What we’re speaking about.
Atoosa:
And she or he additionally does, you already know, I did a 16 week workshop along with her and she or he does these on-line now, and that’s additionally actually one thing as a result of sure, after all it’s very straightforward to do these pages your self each morning, however to do it along with her. And she or he, she’s an actual fascinating, eccentric character. She’s going to train different various things and the entire issues I realized from her are like little instruments that I simply pull outta my toolkit once I want them. And so they’re simply great.
Meredith: Oh my gosh, I’m gonna verify that out. I actually like Russell Model’s podcast and she or he was a visitor on it. And yeah, I’ve listened to that episode like three or 4 instances. She additionally actually advocates for happening walks, like the concept you hearken to podcast or music, you’re form of transporting your self to the artist consciousness and it is advisable to stick with your personal self. Sure. Which I discovered so superior at instances and in addition terrible at different instances. I’m like, I wanna be anyplace however hanging out with simply myself?
Atoosa:
We used to do this. She referred to as it the artist’s stroll. However you already know, now how I’ve reworked that, like once more, understanding that she gave me this nice toolkit after which I form of make it my very own. Like now with the artist pages, generally I’ll do ’em within the morning, different instances, like I can pull out my pocket book and present you that too, it’s all proper right here, however I am going for a stroll with my greatest buddy David nearly day by day. And that stroll, he’s a chaplain. So, you already know, we discuss concerning the form of issues that you simply and I are speaking about now at, at size and in depth, but in addition it’s about awe, you already know, like seeing Central Park in its totally different colours and its totally different phases, seeing individuals.
And so we actually are form of current with what we see and, and to have the ability to share that with one another is simply so lovely.
Meredith:
Wow. I’m discovering your follow as very inspiring
Atoosa:
You realize, as a result of a variety of instances individuals your age, and I used to be like this as effectively you set your output earlier than your enter. Proper? And so you could have a giant job and it’s important to carry out at that job. And, and that’s tied up into additionally your personal vanity, proper? And, then you slot in your enter. When you possibly can. And what I’ve realized now as a 50 12 months outdated is the enter, which means the issues we do to nourish ourselves should come first after which do we have now time for X, Y, Z?
As a result of what I realized having been, you already know, once I was a youthful your age and, and out on this planet profession sensible, I bear in mind pondering. Folks could be so shocked that I used to be very profitable. Like I had a lot output. I’d be like, I’m main a present on mtv and I used to be continuously output, output, output.
And, and, and I simply would have a look at different editors in chief in any respect magazines. I’d be like, why are you not as prolific? Effectively, as a result of they valued their lives, you already know, and their careers finally ended up being far longer than mine as a result of I utterly burnt out. And so, you already know, I, I don’t know what their practices have been, so I’m not essentially speaking about them per se, however only for me, what I worth now could be my wellbeing and my wellbeing, my mates, I must be in nature and I must have like a major relationship with my inner life, which meditation offers me. And so these three issues need to occur. And in the event that they don’t occur, then I can’t write my Substack, I can’t even decide to lunch with someone. That is perhaps a fantastic alternative or no matter.
In order that’s simply, you already know, it’s one thing to consider. And I, and I even put socializing exterior of greatest mates within the class of output as a result of going to social occasions is so draining. I received invited to one thing this Friday by a really form of well-known particular person in New York, and she or he was like, oh, this particular person and that particular person, you already know, it’ll be so good so that you can be on this, you already know, and, and you already know, sure, it could be, you already know, I’ll be within the New York Put up if I am going to that, you already know, like they’ll, that’ll, that’s what’s gonna occur in a great way.Hopefully not in a nasty manner. And trigger I’ve been within the put up in a nasty manner too, however I’m going by way of a divorce proper now and so I’ve a variety of my emotions are very form of tender and I don’t have time in my Friday to do this. I’ve to do my self care. So, and you already know, I say that once I say no and other people, you already know, it’s a bit bizarre.
Folks assume it’s a bit bizarre once I say issues like that. However, you already know, it retains me on level with what’s vital to me.
Meredith:
Yeah. I believe it’s so fascinating was if you say that, it’s like, oh my God, I can think about, I imply, I’m not being invited to these names, however I can think about the placing all of those you already know, marquee names and PR alternatives, they really feel so big. And so selecting your self over them, like I think about making a behavior of that, you be taught that you’re extra vital than all, even all of these issues that different, that, effectively, the internal little one,
Atoosa:
Proper. The internal little one is aware of. She’s scared proper now. She has a variety of emotions of worry due to the transitions and like, we’re not gonna make her go, you already know, like perhaps we made her go to highschool for all these years and we made her go to, you already know, piano follow when you didn’t need to, however we’re not gonna try this anymore.
Meredith:
Wow. Effectively, I form of, I wanna transition a bit bit according to what you’re speaking on about burnout. I believe a variety of girls my age, I’m 35, are having a little bit of a rethink about how they method work and life according to what you’re speaking about. And for me, gen Z, this youthful technology, like barely questioning and rebelling in opposition to the stuff you talked about. Hustle tradition, the lady boss ethos… it’s fascinating. It’s pushing boundaries and views for me, and I’m actually, how do you assume girls’s views on work are altering now? And I do know that that was considerably, I you already know, the lady, the idea of lady boss and hustle tradition.
I do know a few of what you touched in your Ted discuss a bit bit too. I’m actually to get your ideas and perspective on what’s taking place proper now.
Atoosa:
I believe that that’s, that was precisely the, you already know, that was, I, I skilled this, you already know, I left my profession on the top as a result of it was utterly untenable to me. And I just lately reconnected with my therapist from again then and, and it had been a few years and, and I’d nearly forgotten how dangerous it felt inside. After which once I talked to him, he remembered and he was similar to, do you bear in mind, like, you didn’t even, you felt uncomfortable if you have been exterior and like strolling to an appointment trigger you felt like you weren’t being productive. Such as you felt such as you’d get in bother. Like you weren’t, you already know, prefer it was nearly like he, I imply he referred to as it agoraphobia and cuz I used to be crammed with a lot worry once I wasn’t like doing output and like form of creating one thing.
And yeah, I imply I believe that what I hear, and you already know, I’m not like you, I’m not within the, you already know, in a company tradition, to be witnessing it firsthand. I can perceive that the form of hustle tradition that I used to be, one of many like OGs of, you already know, of similar to we work across the clock, you are able to do it, you could possibly be something you wanna be at what value, you already know, actually by no means actually addressed at what value. Proper? I left to be able to tackle at what value.
However I believe that, you already know, these youthful persons are coming into the workforce and so they’re seeing a large number. And my guess, they’re pondering, this doesn’t really feel proper. You realize, this doesn’t appear acceptable. And I believe all of us, due to the pandemic needed to reevaluate. As a result of even mothers who don’t have jobs take part in hustle tradition in some methods, proper?
They, they hustle their youngsters like going from Mandarin class to horseback driving, to tennis, to, you already know, after which when all of that was stripped away and there was most likely a lot extra peace and emotions of freedom regardless of the, you already know, form of a few of the horrible stuff that was additionally taking place in, by way of individuals’s well being.
That will need to have felt like a reduction. So, yeah, I simply, I imply, one of many largest factors I, I suppose I make in my TED discuss is that like, you already know, we discuss concerning the nice resignation and I see like TikTok movies about like the best way to be a freegan. Like the best way to, the best way to retire by age 30. You is usually a freegan, you is usually a this, you is usually a that. And I, and I might simply say, effectively, how about we simply stopped defining our self value by way of our output? How about we begin there for ourselves, you already know? And. And I may have accomplished that had I recognized that I didn’t know, like I didn’t know what was incorrect. I didn’t know why I used to be hustling. I didn’t know that I used to be form of being chased by you already know, form of trauma from my childhood.
You realize, I needed to form of pull all of that aside and perceive how I received there. However as soon as I did, I spotted that, you already know, I didn’t essentially want to depart my job. I may have taken higher care of myself whereas I used to be in it. And so I believe that, I imply, that’s actually the nice alternative and I believe if sufficient individuals do it, we are going to hopefully shift that hustle tradition inside corporations too.
Meredith:
Yeah. And it’s when, if you’re speaking about feeling a bit harassed, strolling exterior, like mm-hmm. , once in a while we’re absolutely distant. Like, if I stroll across the nook to a restaurant and get a espresso in between conferences, I really feel I’ve to, I acknowledge that I really feel responsible. I’m like, that’s loopy however I’ve received this sort of feeling of I must be out there if somebody has query, Gchat, et cetera, like, you already know, you’re, you’re a nasty supervisor or lazy in case you’re not there for it in the course of the workday, which is, you already know, insane.
Atoosa:
And I believe a variety of that comes from our childhood and form of being pressured into faculty and compelled to concentrate, pressured to actually attend. And I believe it’s prefer it’s trauma. And it does present up. And if we will simply identify it and simply acknowledge that we really feel it I believe that’s massive. Trigger I by no means named it, you already know, I by no means I I simply felt it and I assumed there was one thing incorrect with me.
Meredith:
And I believe one factor I’m actually considerably associated to and actually curious in your ideas on is I like this, this extremely fast-paced digital age that we’re dwelling in, the place everyone seems to be related and there’s a lot content material and information coming at us on a regular basis. One factor, form of like even simply excited about and making ready for this assembly, I used to be remembering what a tactile expertise content material was once for me. Like I might wait, you already know, I’d be excited for the magazines to come back and generally I’d look within the mailbox and so they wouldn’t be there that day and I’d be like, ah, perhaps tomorrow. Mm-hmm. after which like, if it was like actually sizzling or chilly that day, just like the magazines are sizzling or chilly and then you definately’re like paging by way of them for the entire month and revisiting and re-looking at these similar articles and pictures and now an article or any picture is rather like, you already know, it’s so fleeting. It has a shelf lifetime of hours and, and content material has modified a lot. It’s altering our brains, I believe. However like, what do you see as, what am I attempting to ask? I suppose like, do you assume there may be an moral manner ahead round content material creation and consuming that’s gonna like, maintain our nervous techniques regulated in order that we’re not you already know, we’re not on the market freaking out, looking at our telephones, taking a look at 18 articles on the best way to seize a cup of espresso day by day? I do know. That’s quite a bit.
Atoosa:
And even, and even like hurting our necks, I imply sure. Like that’s like an actual factor, proper? For me it’s I believe that proper now we have now a fantastic alternative. Content material shouldn’t be solely fleeting, it is vitally low high quality. There’s an artwork type to every thing. You realize, there may be an artwork type to images, there may be an artwork type to, I imply, every thing, proper? All the pieces has has, there may be mastery. and the folks that have achieved mastery and content material for essentially the most half, should not a part of the content material sport proper now as a result of content material is being created by on a regular basis individuals. Yeah. And I believe that there’s something actually cool about that, and there’s a spot for that.
You realize, there was a time when, you already know, like my thought and my imaginative and prescient all the time was, and, and know-how fairly wasn’t fairly there once I was there, however is to form of have a have like that form of larger degree, like having all the actual fact checkers and replica editors, you already know, actually, and, and reporters, skilled expert reporters creating work after which having neighborhood that’s vibrant. And so now what’s occurred is it’s simply the neighborhood half just about.
And so like someone was telling me like, that is kinda associated, however totally different, like they have been doing an advert marketing campaign photograph shoot, and the make-up artist was an influencer. And, and you already know, make-up artists, like if you have a look at the make-up artists that have been very massive if you have been youthful, that may not not have been in your radar, however just like the Kevyn Aucoins of the world, I imply, these have been artists, you already know what I imply? They’d imaginative and prescient and now it’s kinda like if you can also make a TikTok video after which they simply form of retouch it, you already know what I imply? And it, it’s simply every thing has simply form of sunk just a few ranges down. So I believe that there’s a big alternative to create very effectively curated content material. It requires somebody with cash and a imaginative and prescient and braveness to do it.
Sadly the foremost media corporations are very fear-based. Their enterprise simply received eaten up and so now they’re additionally within the algorithm sport. And the, the, the oldsters who know the best way to rent prime expertise and have had prime expertise up to now at the moment are simply hiring form of center administration to simply form of maintain issues going versus, like, once I was employed they gave me full reign to do no matter I wished. And a few of that stuff was like, I created a sticker web page. Proper? That’s like, costly. Very costly. It was like 100 thousand {dollars} a month funding on their half, however it actually introduced within the reader. In order that was like, that was nice. However I additionally ran footage of vaginas as a result of I felt it was actually vital for women to know what their tools appears to be like like.
Yeah. And so they have been shocked by that and Walmart and Albertson didn’t like that they pulled it off their cabinets, however nonetheless it was one thing, you already know, it was, it was, it was a perspective. It was directional on the time. Now, you already know, goop does it on a regular basis, perhaps, however on the time it was very uncommon.
And no one’s doing something uncommon now aside from being a prepare wreck. And I don’t imply it in a imply manner. Like if someone is a prepare wreck the place they’ve one thing horrible that’s occurred, then we’ll tackle it. Like when Jeff Bezos sends round an image of his junk and it will get on the web, you already know what I imply? However like there isn’t that kinda this about one thing actually highly effective that’s being created with intention. Not for younger individuals or I don’t assume for ladies both. I don’t get any magazines. I’m not pressed on like, I’ve to see x, y, Z web site. I simply really feel like I’m consuming pirate booty all day, form of taking a look at Instagram, hoping for one thing to the touch me in a roundabout way, however nothing does.
Meredith:
As you’re speaking, I’m excited about how, form of like, TikTok, for instance, is like the right dopamine habit, quick circuit. Prefer it’s quick, there’s one thing sudden on the finish. The following factor comes up immediately. And it’s like our baser circuitry is so stimulated and in there however then that form of like are extra aware when that’s what is served. Our higher self shouldn’t be actually engaged or impressed in the identical manner. And it’s arduous although, like how do corporations, you already know, if you’re competing with the best way to quick circuit customers consideration, how do you interact of us with deeper however barely tougher larger barrier gear to entry concepts?
Atoosa:
We fucking sit down at a gathering with excessive degree individuals. And we give you a goddamn plan. You realize what I imply? Like, it’s like nobody’s even having that dialog as a result of they’re similar to, oh, I imply like once I went up, that is the best way. Yeah. Once I take into consideration my very own experiences with content material, you already know, I bear in mind being a senior in faculty. I went to Barnard and like similar to sitting round flipping {a magazine} and someday I noticed one thing referred to as reducing, like self-injury. I had by no means heard of it. I used to be a cutter. I believed I used to be the one particular person on this planet who did this. Like you understand how you could have some bizarre factor you would possibly do along with your nail otherwise you would possibly take your toes and also you assume no one else does it. Think about such as you then come to this factor and also you’re like, oh shit, that is the factor. Why do individuals do it? I’m studying it. I’m studying it. Incest. Incest. What’s incest? Now? I don’t develop up with the web. There’s no web at this level. Incest. That phrase sounds acquainted. I’ve heard incest. Incest. I am going to actually the Miriam Webster dictionary my brother gave me for highschool commencement. I lookup incest. I’m like, holy shit, that occurred to me. You realize what I imply? And so like I’m having this huge life-changing second that each clarified what I might do for the remainder of my life, that I might need to create these moments for different individuals in a really considerate manner. And. Started my very own therapeutic journey.
And that was due to a gaggle of editors who sat at a desk and wished to assist their viewers. And so they weren’t excited about how do I get sufficient clicks? They weren’t excited about, you already know, I sat down with my crew day by day and anytime I heard any bullshit that was like, oh, In Model did this, I’m like, I informed you an image of a lady. This lady, you already know, this lady wants us and let’s go learn. What’s she as much as? They might begin their day studying, for half-hour, letters from our viewers to actually perceive like, how do you be within the headspace of this lady?
As a result of we weren’t proper. We have been grownups, younger grownups, however nonetheless grownups. And so, you create from there, take into consideration the thoughtfulness that goes into that, you already know, versus like, right this moment it’s like, There’s no thoughtfulness. I checked out one fucking cat video on Instagram and despatched it to my boyfriend, after which out of the blue my total feed is cat movies. Proper? It’s like, okay.
Like I simply wanted that one. You realize, that, and, and it jogs my memory of, and we’ve talked about this in my, I believe perhaps in my, perhaps I haven’t, however that is vital to know, like once I was creating the magazines, we might have focus teams, proper? And we’d even have month-to-month focus teams form of surveys that we might do with our analysis division.
And with out fail, no matter got here up because the primary movie star in our journal analysis and in focus teams that readers mentioned they need could be the bottom promoting cowl. The very best promoting cowl could be someone not even on the listing. As a result of actually like, I imply, customers right this moment, we name them customers. Again then we referred to as them readers. Readers need what they don’t know they need but. They don’t, they don’t even know. You realize what I imply? So like, I bear in mind Anne Hathaway was very extremely rated as someone as a result of she was in a film, perhaps Princess Diaries or one thing. And all the women have been kinda thinking about her. And we bumped her for a canopy and did Mary Kate and Ashley, they’d by no means been on a canopy earlier than of something apart from it was the start of the Mary Kate and Ashley that we then turned like style icons and no matter. Oh my God. That difficulty offered so effectively. And like, I bear in mind the publicist of Anne Hathaway was like, how may you bump her?
You realize, at one level I believed it was about Reese Witherspoon, however it was concerning the Olsen twins. How may you bump her for them? Like individuals wished that. And so if we go simply by algorithm, Not solely are we not doing a service like coming from like a heart-based place, however if you’re not doing a service, then you definately’re only a fucking, you’re similar to a, a folly, you already know what I imply? Like TikTok is just as massive because the folly and, and once I created {a magazine} for just a few years and all these years later, you care about me and also you care about me as a result of I cared about you. And that was a relationship. And that’s how we construct manufacturers, it’s not simply by like, what’s our short-term acquire and the way can we get essentially the most variety of clicks? Or how can I’ve essentially the most variety of followers? I don’t have essentially the most variety of followers, however my fucking followers, like, I’ll inform you. Like once we see one another on the road, we cry as a result of they modified my life and I modified their life. And that’s simply actual.
And there is a chance for that. There’s, it’s not about essentially me doing it, perhaps it’s one among you guys doing it in your, in your age group. However there is a chance to actually be in neighborhood in the best way we’re all hungry for. And so it’s actually, it’s gonna take someone like, have a look at this fucking Elon Musk. Proper? I imply, I like him as a result of he made my automobile and I like my automobile. However I imply, spent all that cash shopping for Twitter. We simply, who says it issues to be in connection, in neighborhood of service? We will do higher than clickbait. Someone with cash’s gotta do it cuz this shit doesn’t occur free of charge.
Meredith:
I’m feeling actually impressed by what you’re saying. I really feel like even going again to the place you began with, similar to you’re like, what’s reducing? Oh my God. What? Like my, I really feel like my coronary heart is pounding. Even simply excited about that second after which excited about a time the place, I don’t know, not like a darkish ages earlier than the web, however the place data was more durable to come back by.
Atoosa:
Good data continues to be arduous to come back by. No. Yeah. And I do know, trigger I’ve a 13 12 months outdated who’s continuously attempting to do recipes from TikTok and so they don’t work trigger it’s not good content material.
Meredith:
And it’s like if you discuss service and like service, knowledge sharing, curation and form of the alchemy of like, how can I join with what individuals wanna be related with about, I additionally assume that what you’re speaking about, like to not shade TikTok-ers, however it’s form of taking, it’s like, I’m gonna take your, your consideration, your dopamine, your circuits for being my follower.
Atoosa:
Proper on the finish. It’s like comply with and share. Observe and share. Observe and share. Yeah. We by no means requested you to comply with and share, you already know what I imply? We simply tried to do an excellent job for you and I believe all of the magazines again within the day do, and, and I simply assume that there’s that chance to present as an alternative of take and, and can, would require I believe someone with an urge for food and, and deep pockets to, to fund it, actually. Yeah.
Meredith:
Effectively, I do know we’re at time and I’m so grateful Atoosa, I really feel like I’m gonna be driving on excited about what you shared for the following few weeks. Like I, so if individuals need to comply with you proper now and wanna interact with you and your content material, the place do you wanna direct them towards?
Atoosa: I imply, you already know, like lots of people, I’m on Instagram, it’s simply my full identify, Atoosa Rubenstein. However the place, you already know, I do, my work is on Substack so it’s atoosa.com and I’ve a weekly letter that yeah, that feels, you already know, very very similar to the grownup model of the editors’ letters I used to write down again then.
Meredith:
And I’ve liked them. I’ll embody each of these within the present notes. And thanks.
Thanks a lot. This was such a enjoyable dialog. I’m so glad that you’re on the market doing what you’re doing and speaking about this stuff, like thanks a lot, Atoosa.
Atoosa:
You’re welcome. Thanks a lot.
Meredith:
All proper everybody. We hope you loved our chat with Tusa. We’ll be coming to you subsequent week with an interview with Cliff Stevens.
Cliff is the top of Liberty Mutual’s in-house company Copper Giants. He has tons of knowledge and expertise about constructing an in-house company, working at extra conventional locations like Arnold. He’s a font of knowledge. Tremendous cool.
Ian:
We’ll additionally put a bit plug right here for Bratton’s content material. If you’re not among the many nearly 100 thousand entrepreneurs who subscribe to our publication, you’re severely lacking out on some actually good content material data.
We’ll throw the hyperlink within the present notes under if you wish to subscribe.
Meredith:
And that’s it of us. Thanks for listening. You possibly can price and evaluation us on iTunes, and in case you wanna get in contact, you possibly can e mail us at contentpeople@brafton.com