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A Dialog with Ellie Weinstein of Cocoa Press
Ellie Weinstein of Cocoa Press (picture credit score: Penn Engineering)
On this episode of Make:Forged, I speak with Ellie Weinstein, founder and CEO of Cocoa Press, an organization that manufactures 3D printers that print with chocolate. Ellie discusses her 10-year journey from beginning a highschool undertaking to launching the second mannequin of her Cocoa Press printer. The dialogue highlights her background in mechanical engineering, her expertise with 3D printing, and the challenges of making a singular product that mixes expertise and confectionery.
Ellie additionally shares her experiences at Maker Faire – she introduced her first prototype to Maker Faire New York a few years in the past and Cocoa Press was at Maker Faire Bay Space final October. There’s a lot to study from Ellie’s story — the begins and stops of growing her chocolate 3D printers and having to promote chocolate bars to maintain working. However Ellie was clear that she wished to do what her most, and that was making machines that make chocolate.
I like listening to Ellie’s story and whether or not you want chocolate or not, you may respect studying what it took for her to maintain going via stops and begins and proving that nothing is as straightforward because it appears at first, however the challenges could make the reward all of the extra candy.
Video of Podcast
Ellie Weinstein and Cocoa Press have been at Maker Faire Bay Space in October.
Photograph by Keith Hammond
Transcript
I’m 3D Printing Chocolate
Dale Dougherty: Welcome to Make:Forged. I’m Dale Dougherty. I wager few of you, whenever you need one thing candy to eat, would suppose a 3D printer may fulfill your craving by producing a chocolate bar. Nicely, a Cocoa Press 3D printer would make that attainable. As an alternative of plastic filament, it prints chocolate in any form you need. One couple purchased a Cocoa Press printer for his or her marriage ceremony so they might make personalised favors for his or her company.
On this episode, I speak with Ellie Weinstein about an concept that grew to become a undertaking after which grew to become an organization referred to as Cocoa Press.
Ellie had the thought about 10 years in the past, however slowly and steadily, she developed the method and the machine. And now she’s launching mannequin two of the Cocoa Press printer. I like listening to Ellie’s story and whether or not you want chocolate or not, you may respect studying what it took for her to maintain going via stops and begins and proving that nothing is as straightforward because it appears at first, however the challenges could make the reward all of the extra candy.
And earlier than we start, I want might the vacations be joyful for you and yours, and make your self one thing that lights up the lengthy winter nights. From me and all of us at Make:, Joyful New Yr.
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Dale Dougherty: I’m right here with Ellie Weinstein and glad to see you. The place are you proper now?
Ellie Weinstein: I’m at our new Cocoa Press workplace in Philadelphia.
Dale Dougherty: Philadelphia.
Ellie Weinstein: We moved, I don’t know, three months in the past? Inside Philly, however I’m fairly excited to be right here now.
Dale Dougherty: Nice. I didn’t know you have been in Philadelphia. Inform me somewhat bit about your self and your background. How did you even know that you’d be doing what you’re doing?
Ellie Weinstein: I didn’t know I’d be doing what I’m doing. Yeah, I’m Ellie. I’m the founder and CEO of Cocoa Press. We make 3D printers that print chocolate. And I suppose my background is in mechanical engineering. I went to the College of Pennsylvania and studied that. I’ve simply been obsessive about 3D printing and stumbled in chocolate printing about 10 years in the past now.
Dale Dougherty: You have been at Maker Honest Bay space. I didn’t get an opportunity to do that, however you mentioned, come by, do a style take a look at, and and I might suspect that half your problem is to persuade individuals {that a} 3D printed chocolate just isn’t an inferior piece of chocolate.
Ellie Weinstein: It’s attention-grabbing how many individuals anticipate 3D printing to alter the flavour of the chocolate and it doesn’t. It’s nonetheless the identical chocolate. And if something, as a result of we’re in a position to do distinctive textures and make shapes which might be simply not attainable to make with conventional chocolate making strategies, it really can generally improve the mouthfeel and, whereas it’s not altering the flavour, it nonetheless makes the general expertise and style higher of the chocolate.
Dale Dougherty: Are you able to simply give us an outline of the way it works? I think about you’re melting it in at some stage, proper?
Ellie Weinstein: I’m positive most people who find themselves listening know this — I do know you understand this — 3D printing total is a means of increase an object layer by layer. So we’re placing the underside a part of the chocolate down, after which simply constructing that up slowly over time. With basic 3D printing, you’ve gotten a spool of filament that you simply’re heating up because it’s being printed, however with ours, all the chocolate is being heated on the identical time — preheated even — and so it’s all melted. All of the chocolate that you simply want to your print is melted forward of time in somewhat cylinder form, like a syringe kind of factor.
And in order that’s in all probability the most important distinction proper off the bat is simply we preheat all of the chocolate, it’s there, we’ve two heaters, loopy exact inside plus-or-minus a tenth of a level Celsius. Yeah it prints it out simply above, or simply under physique temperature really, with about 10 kilos of drive, after which it solidifies at room temperature, without having for any lively cooling.
Dale Dougherty: So one thing that we would know, like a chocolate Easter Bunny that’s hole on the within, is one thing you would print.
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah, you may make it hole, you would make it nearly strong, you would make it with gyroid infills, or no matter infill is in your favourite slicer nowadays.
Dale Dougherty: Did you’ve gotten this concept and begin enjoying round with it after which in a while it grew to become a enterprise?
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah, precisely.
Dale Dougherty: Discuss that street, if you’ll, exploring one thing.
Ellie Weinstein: I can get carried away with speaking about this, so I’ll attempt to preserve it considerably transient.
I began this really as a senior in highschool in 2014, and I used to be lucky sufficient to be at a faculty in 2014 that had 3D printing. It was rather less standard in excessive colleges than it’s now, and principally [I] was in an intro to engineering class, thought I may construct something, and mentioned, oh, “I wish to construct a 3D printer.” And my trainer checked out me and mentioned, “We have now one over there, go do one thing that doesn’t exist already.”
And at that time, there might have been a few DIY chocolate printers on the market, however there actually wasn’t something business. And arguably there’s nonetheless not very a lot business in chocolate printing. So it grew to become a one semester undertaking that was a full yr undertaking, which was my pastime.
Dale Dougherty: At highschool, earlier than you went to school, you have been doing this?
Ellie Weinstein: Yep, and I’m doing this, and I say, okay, yep, mechanical engineering is certainly what I wish to do. I didn’t know something about CAD, I didn’t know something. I keep in mind how thoughts blowing it was once I discovered you would really make threads in a bit of steel by tapping a gap.
That was all stuff that I realized in the midst of this undertaking, and positively took a number of inspiration from the unique MakerBot Replicator that we had there and downloaded the CAD to take a look at all of that kind of factor. In order that’s the way it began.
Then I went to school. Like I mentioned, I used to be at Penn learning mechanical engineering and simply picked it up each infrequently, at any time when I had downtime, winter break, summer season break no matter it is perhaps. And it ended up being the summer season going into my junior yr of faculty; I used to be taking some lessons that summer season, taking physics E&M within the morning, working within the faculty’s 3D printing lab within the afternoon, after which, within the evenings, I might actually go dwelling, make dinner, come again to the lab, and I’d taken 20 sq. ft of this room, and like a 5 foot desk by like possibly 4 ft again, and determined, okay, I’m gonna redo this machine to make it really work and have the ability to print greater than, I don’t know, 13 layers tall.
My brother satisfied me to use to really go to Maker Faire. And I swear I’m not saying this simply because I’m speaking to you however he mentioned, you actually ought to attempt to present this off at New York Maker Faire, which I had really been to the yr earlier than in 2017, I believe? 2016 I’d been, so I confirmed it off in 2017. Once I obtained in, I used to be so excited. And that’s the place it began, being like, hey, possibly this might be a enterprise.
Dale Dougherty: So how was it whenever you confirmed it at Maker Faire that yr, did it work?
Ellie Weinstein: Okay, so it was a 90 diploma day in September that yr, and I used to be outdoors.
Dale Dougherty: you’re fearful about…
Ellie Weinstein: The reply was, it didn’t work very properly, however I used to be in a position to do a few two layer issues. And, it labored properly sufficient. I had completed that prototype three days earlier than. I used to be interviewed by, I’m blanking on the individual’s identify, however who ran an internet site on the time referred to as 3DigitalCooks. Individuals have been asking, how a lot does this value? What number of have you ever made? Like, the place can I purchase them?
I completed this three days in the past! At that time, I had been kicked out of the lab as a result of the varsity yr had began. And so I used to be doing this from the nook of my bed room with…
Dale Dougherty: That is simply at the beginning of the varsity yr.
Ellie Weinstein: Sure, precisely. It’s Maker Faire New York with what September? Yeah, precisely. So starting of the varsity yr, I simply began courting somebody who seven years later is now my fiancee. And so she thought I used to be like somewhat loopy, which she’s proper. However that’s the way it began. Individuals have been simply coming as much as me as a result of I used to be on this, the way forward for meals part.
And taking a look at this, it put somewhat bit in me of, “Hey, possibly there’s a marketplace for this, possibly that is one thing individuals need.” But additionally I used to be behind at school.
Dale Dougherty: I’m simply actually joyful to listen to that story. I’ve at all times hoped that Maker Faire was nearly like this pre-commercial alternative. Like earlier than you even know if it’s attention-grabbing, all of a sudden you get this suggestions from individuals and also you ask these questions and also you go what’s it they need? And will I ship it?
Ellie Weinstein: Completely. I had a bunch of my mates come up. We stayed in considered one of my brother’s pal’s homes for the weekend. It was actually enjoyable. That was a cool Maker Faire.
Dale Dougherty: You continue to had two extra years of faculty to complete, proper?
Ellie Weinstein: Sure. So I put it away after that. I used to be so behind on my schoolwork. You may get away at school with not doing work the primary week or so as a result of they’re simply telling you what textbooks to purchase, however I used to be behind. I used to be satisfied to go to this different occasion in January the place by accident everybody else there was a startup they usually by accident requested me to be on the panel and me being me, I simply mentioned sure earlier than realizing. So now I’m on a panel with a complete bunch of different individuals in a startup and this is sort of a pastime. In order that was the following factor.
Put it away once more, I had one other semester to finish. And what actually modified issues was my senior yr of faculty, we had our senior design capstone undertaking, and needed to determine what to do. My crew actually wished to work on Cocoa Press. It was somebody who was actually all in favour of thermodynamics (who later went on to do a PhD), somebody who was actually within the design and the graphic design (and so a shopper product was actually interesting to her), and the programming, and so forth.
It was an ideal match for the crew. I used to be really one of many individuals saying, I don’t suppose we must always do that as a result of giving up management is horrifying.
Dale Dougherty: Yeah.
Ellie Weinstein: However senior design went properly. I had faculty sources now. I may speak to professors. Our advisor was the fluids professor.
Dale Dougherty: So that you incubated it by your self for years with out actually getting different individuals concerned. After which this senior design undertaking makes it a crew.
Ellie Weinstein: Yep. Yep. After which that yr I took — it was like 5 out of six lessons I might have wanted for the engineering entrepreneurship minor. So I didn’t get the minor, however I took most of them. The final class I took was this class referred to as “Engineering and Entrepreneurship Lab” with Professor Jeffrey Babin.
And you’d use your personal startup concept as your class undertaking to find out about all of it. So it was three hours, as soon as per week, and we’d simply sit round. He actually purchased pizza for the category each week. This was his like, pastime class. It was his ardour.
Dale Dougherty: Oh, that’s nice.
Ellie Weinstein: So my final semester in school, two out of my 4 lessons was simply me engaged on Cocoa Press and getting credit score for it. In order that’s the way it began.
Dale Dougherty: Can I ask a query? As a result of it’s come up up to now for makers at faculties. Do you hand over any IP rights?
Ellie Weinstein: I do know each faculty does it in another way. At Penn, and I don’t know what their guidelines at the moment are, however on the time at Penn, that they had fairly good guidelines for undergrads. They principally mentioned you personal all IP, however you do must run it by our authorized division. And so they interviewed me, they interviewed a few professors.
I don’t keep in mind in the event that they talked to my teammates, however like I obtained, one thing casual however in writing from my teammates saying they didn’t personal the IP. And so then I left with a letter saying Penn has no proper to any of the mental property of this. So grad college students, I do know they’re like somewhat extra…
Dale Dougherty: Yeah, it’s somewhat totally different as a result of they’re paid usually to work on…
Ellie Weinstein: Precisely.
Dale Dougherty: It’s good to convey it up as a result of individuals ought to ask.
Ellie Weinstein: Completely. I received a number of totally different awards and stuff, so I obtained someplace within the realm of $20,000 as I used to be leaving school to maintain engaged on this. And free house for six months of their innovation accelerator and stuff like that, they usually nonetheless didn’t take any IP, although I obtained all this cash and all these awards.
Dale Dougherty: Good them.
Ellie Weinstein: I respect that.
Dale Dougherty: So that you graduate. Do you decide to love, “I’m finished with faculty. My undertaking is now my enterprise?” Or do you concentrate on, do you concentrate on getting a job?
Ellie Weinstein: Making use of for a job appeared troublesome, and doing my very own factor, whereas tougher, is simpler to not apply for a job. I had utilized to do a robotics grasp’s program, which I did get into, determined to not do.
Dale Dougherty: At Penn?
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah, at Penn. And likewise began the LLC on the identical time, that second semester of faculty. However as soon as I obtained into the Penn Innovation Accelerator, which is sort of a mile off campus, however nonetheless on campus, it was fairly clear I used to be going to strive that out for somewhat bit. And yeah, I went full time proper from faculty.
Dale Dougherty: Now you misplaced your design crew, proper?
Ellie Weinstein: Sure.
Dale Dougherty: So it’s all again in your courtroom once more, proper?
Ellie Weinstein: One of many individuals was nonetheless my roommate for a pair extra years. And so he would assist me with, I don’t know, like numerous math and programming issues. Similar to a really good individual. Clearly rather more casual. That was tough to lose everybody I used to be working with, to lose all the entry to the varsity’s sources, all of that.
Dale Dougherty: However did you’ve gotten a fairly good prototype at that time?
Ellie Weinstein: I assumed so. I look again and I understand I had no concept what it takes to launch a {hardware} product, however on the time I assumed so, yeah.
Dale Dougherty: As a result of your problem then was to maneuver from a prototype to one thing you would manufacture, proper?
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah. And I believe it’s distinctive for a {hardware} firm to start out up having already constructed three full prototypes, having a proof of idea from my engineering entrepreneurship class, having run buyer surveys, actually having a good suggestion. I don’t suppose that’s widespread in a {hardware} startup particularly.
Dale Dougherty: What was your imaginative and prescient for the marketplace for it at that time? Like industrial or shopper? I suppose is what I’m asking.
Ellie Weinstein: Industrial greater than shopper at that time. We have been speaking to everybody from greater than chocolate retailers, really bakeries. As a result of they’re used to doing personalized truffles and different stuff, however don’t wish to purchase the gear to work with chocolate. And that is an multi functional chocolate factor. Extra on the commercial house at that time.
Dale Dougherty: That entails going out and discovering these potential first prospects and getting them to strive a brand new technique of doing one thing that they’ve been doing in all probability for a very long time.
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah, precisely. Our competitors is at all times the established order. There was nobody else actually doing it.
Dale Dougherty: So that you had to try this too, proper? Such as you didn’t have a salesman but.
Ellie Weinstein: Nope, not on the time. Not on the time. I employed somebody who began, I wish to say March 2nd, 2020. Nice time to rent somebody.
Dale Dougherty: Yeah, I’ll at all times do not forget that after they have been employed.
Ellie Weinstein: Oh yeah. So it was simply me till then. After which yeah, clearly COVID was a multitude.
Dale Dougherty: Say the following yr or two, what modified? Or what did you must accomplish?
Ellie Weinstein: On the time, in my constructing was one other 3D printing firm Allevi. They switched their identify from BioBots. Since then, they’ve been acquired by 3D Techniques, they usually have left the constructing. However I obtained to speak to Ricky, who ran that firm, on a regular basis, and I used to be on the primary flooring of the constructing. I would go away my door open usually due to HVAC points. And he would simply come by and he’d say, “Ellie what are you going to promote? It’s a must to generate income. What are you going to promote?” I used to be, “The printer, the chocolate till I can promote the printer.”
That’s what I used to be doing at that time. We ended up launching our first printer the autumn of 2020. And it was simply an absolute failure from each perspective. And that was a get up name at that time.
Dale Dougherty: Yeah.
Ellie Weinstein: That was the primary of, I might say, two or 3 times that Cocoa Press nearly shut down.
Dale Dougherty: So that you in all probability weren’t paying your self.
Ellie Weinstein: No.
Dale Dougherty: And the whole lot went into the product, proper?
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah.
Dale Dougherty: Are you able to speak somewhat bit about the way you thought you’d manufacture? What number of did you suppose you would need to make? And the way did you go about it?
Ellie Weinstein: We have been hoping to promote 25 of them to start out. We had talked to a sheet steel producer that was in western New York. I had toured one other one, somewhat extra domestically, however the place in western New York was very type to us, was so enthusiastic about what we have been doing. And so simply helped somewhat bit on like, how do you launch a {hardware} product? And so they have been nice.
Dale Dougherty: So this, are you able to inform me a bit about it? As a result of, a minimum of some individuals in your place get on a aircraft and go to China, proper? Over time, speaking to individuals, I am going — they want too, that there was extra alternative for American producers to get entangled, particularly small to midsize ones that — However generally they don’t know the way to interface with a brand new product.
Ellie Weinstein: Typically it’s about not realizing the way to interface. Typically it’s about value. I discover that folks usually suppose, okay, manufacturing in China goes to take this $100 product and make it, $105 or one thing, for those who make it within the US. And from what I discovered, costs in China are — there was one half that I obtained quoted in, one set of elements I obtained quoted in a complete bunch of locations, and manufacturing in China was 40 p.c of the price of the US. So generally it’s actually arduous to say, no really, this 100 product is now going to be $220, or $210. Which is a large distinction.
There have been some elements I couldn’t supply from the US. Our double paned, argon stuffed glass door. I attempted and I attempted and I couldn’t get anybody to make them within the US.
I discovered a spot in China on Alibaba they usually did it for, I overlook, 60 bucks every. Customized dimension, simply unbelievable. After which different locations within the US, a heater firm that I discovered was nice to work with. They simply despatched it out to China anyway to get it made, and so I used to be paying that premium for what I assumed was US made, nevertheless it was really only a US firm getting them despatched out.
Since then, we do get most of our stuff made in China with LDO, who additionally goes to Maker Faires and occasions, and is rather like a beautiful steward of the neighborhood. However these are a few of my ideas about U.S. vs. Chinese language manufacturing.
Working LDO is superb.
Dale Dougherty: You’ve produced seven and also you promote these?
Ellie Weinstein: A few of them. Some have been demos. One went to Linus Tech Suggestions, obtained destroyed by UPS. They put a pallet jack via it. Spent eight months preventing insurance coverage to get that cash, which I did ultimately get, as a result of they put a pallet jack via it after which misplaced the package deal. I did get it again ultimately.
Dale Dougherty: Doing a enterprise is a bunch of these struggle tales. Such as you did, you by no means suppose that’s the place you’re going to spend your time. However it’s all these issues like insurance coverage and stuff that comes up and hits you within the face.
Ellie Weinstein: Oh, insurance coverage always comes up and hits me within the face. The variety of insurance coverage firms I’ve talked to that claims, “Are you 3D printing weapons?” And “I’m like I’m 3D printing chocolate.” What are you asking me proper now?
Dale Dougherty: What don’t you perceive about chocolate?
Ellie Weinstein: If any individual desires to make a chocolate Nerf gun or one thing, Zach Friedman tried, however like, all energy to you, however don’t deny my insurance coverage due to this, please.
Dale Dougherty: How did you transition into the corporate you might be at this time? Like, how many individuals you’ve gotten now?
Ellie Weinstein: Proper now, we’ve 4 individuals full time, after which, I don’t know, relying on the way you depend it, three to 4 contractors we work with fairly frequently. After which a number of different neighborhood members who’re simply superb people and assist us out in return for as a lot chocolate as they need.
I discussed earlier, there have been 3 times the place Cocoa Press nearly disappeared, that first time was the place we’re within the story now, like after the printer didn’t promote, and that was because of numerous causes. Every thing from the product not working as properly, delivery being troublesome, not making sufficient so we needed to elevate the worth, and so forth. Simply unhealthy product market match total.
I mentioned, okay, let’s develop into our personal buyer. And we spent the following, I don’t know timelines right here, yr and a half, promoting chocolate and bought tens of 1000’s of {dollars} of chocolate. Bought into firm techniques, college techniques. And generally when you’re of their system as a most popular vendor, each division will slowly discover you and say, “Oh, wait, we will do that customized factor, and you may be paid very simply by our firm? Nice!”
Dale Dougherty: So that they have been ordering customized chocolate? Not pre packaged bars or issues like that, essentially.
Ellie Weinstein: Not prepackaged bars. Besides one of many issues, I noticed is like, the place does 3D printing actually make sense in right here? And so I might really make, at this level I had some chocolate gear, I might really make clean bars after which 3D print textual content on prime of them. And it was nice. Ninety second print.
I believe I had 4 of these seven printers. Or possibly three of the seven printers. I bought 1000’s and 1000’s of chocolate bars and the chocolate made it all over the place. I bought some to the U. S. ambassador to Germany and he or she introduced it to Germany and to the White Home. She was assembly with the president on the time in, I believe this, I don’t keep in mind precisely what it was, however they weren’t allowed to eat it, clearly, because of safety considerations. I do know some White Home staffers and folk obtained to eat my chocolate. That was fairly cool. That was fairly cool. So we grew to become our personal buyer.
Dale Dougherty: You weren’t delivery machines, you have been delivery chocolate that you simply’d make.
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah, precisely. We might for the companies that have been increased portions. For individuals, we labored with an area chocolate store they usually made like colourful, flavorful bonbons, after which we did the personalized bar. And so we have been making an attempt to make use of what’s the advantage of conventional chocolate making? What’s the advantage of 3D printing on this?
Scorching chocolate bombs have been massive on the time. One criticism from chocolate retailers was, “You’ve these two half spheres. Then you must put them collectively properly and make the seam.” I can simply print this in a manner cooler form than only a sphere and make a pause within the center, put within the marshmallows, and I put some edible glitter inside and preserve going.
We bought a whole bunch of 3D printed sizzling chocolate bombs as properly. It was enjoyable.
Dale Dougherty: On the expertise facet, was there something that needed to occur? We talked about manufacturing somewhat bit, however was there something that both, you discovered some half or one thing that made a distinction? Otherwise you needed to do programming that made a distinction? How did the expertise facet develop throughout this era?
Ellie Weinstein: Not very a lot throughout that interval. It was actually specializing in use instances. However I didn’t wish to be a chocolate store, proper? I didn’t wish to compete with — there’s 3,000 chocolate retailers within the nation. I wished to do the {hardware} as a result of that’s what I’m all in favour of. And I used to be not, I wasn’t all in favour of operating an organization that didn’t curiosity me.
And so what occurred was, it was me and somebody who was in school, Will, on the time, and we we checked out all the 3D printers on the market and mentioned, What ought to we do? Let’s work with an present producer and simply put our extruder on there. As a result of what labored badly on the printer was the gantry system and what labored properly was the chocolate points. And that’s simply foolish like I don’t must reinvent the wheel. So we began working with this firm. Didn’t go properly, they ended up folding. They stole a few of our gear.
Dale Dougherty: An American firm?
Ellie Weinstein: Yep, they folded. They took a few of our gear. I’ve since met them in individual they usually have been similar to, oh, yeah. In order that was somewhat little bit of a kick. Then we mentioned, okay let’s try this Voron printer. Fortunately we hadn’t wasted an excessive amount of time with them.
So we seemed on the Voron printers. That’s similar to an open supply, 3D printing group, principally. And I cherished the V0, the small printer. So anyway, lengthy story brief, we made a prototype utilizing a V0, introduced it to the Midwest RepRap Pageant, met the crew. At that time, that was the closest Cocoa Press ever obtained to closing. I used to be actively interviewing for different jobs at this level.
I used to be like, I can’t do that anymore. This printer may work, nevertheless it’s gonna be a facet factor and possibly I can construct it again as much as a full time factor. And at that occasion, the whole lot modified. Unrelated to this, I met somebody and obtained to meet my dream of being on BattleBots, and so I’m on Group Mammoth in BattleBots, which is actually enjoyable.
And I met the Voron of us, and I obtained an e mail from Maks, who’s RCF, the founding father of the Voron undertaking, and he mentioned, paraphrasing, “Hey, let’s make your printer, however good.” And he sadly got here down with COVID from that occasion and had the most efficient COVID you’ve ever seen anybody have.
And he simply redesigned the entire machine, principally. And we labored for the following yr to to make what then grew to become the printer we began promoting final yr. I’m eternally grateful for Maks on that
Dale Dougherty: That’s nice. So somebody from the neighborhood steps up and says, “I may help you.” And that’s fairly outstanding. And also you have been nearly prepared to surrender.
Ellie Weinstein: Oh yeah. No, I used to be actively looking for issues. At one level I used to be going, this will have been somewhat bit earlier, however at one level I used to be interviewing for a corporation in Canada. I used to be going to maneuver to Canada. And the border was closed, so it couldn’t occur. And I used to be pissed off on the time, however so grateful now that the border was closed due to COVID, after all, that there was no manner for me to maneuver to Canada.
Dale Dougherty: Oh, that’s cool. So Maks helps you produce this new model of the printer after which the place do you go get that made? A special course of, proper?
Ellie Weinstein: Sure, so very totally different, there’s no sheet steel on this. There’s one injection molded half, nevertheless it was an off the shelf half. We didn’t have to purchase tooling for it. And that was one thing that was actually essential to me, just isn’t placing a bunch of upfront cash into this.
I at all times have this query, like, when do you launch a product? At what stage? I believe that’s one thing the 3D printing world is reckoning with for the time being. From so many failed Kickstarters to printers that they are saying, “Okay, this printer is out there at this time. It’s delivery.” And all over the place in between.
Dale Dougherty: Yeah.
Ellie Weinstein: However once I felt prepared, I put it up on the market. The corporate was simply me on the time. Amy, who had been working with me, had left to go to Formlabs. I used to be like, okay let’s do that out. So put it up on the market.
Dale Dougherty: What was the worth tag?
Ellie Weinstein: $1,500. Similar value it’s now. Though, a fast plug for me: we simply introduced Cocoa Press 2 and there’s a $300 low cost for pre-ordering it. However importantly, individuals solely needed to put $100 down to order it, and that was refundable.
Dale Dougherty: That’s cool.
Ellie Weinstein: I simply wished to see, what? How do you determine what the demand is for a brand new product?
Dale Dougherty: Yeah, precisely.
Ellie Weinstein: It’s inconceivable.
Dale Dougherty: That’s the place Kickstarter was attention-grabbing, nevertheless it was additionally a problem.
Ellie Weinstein: It’s. I made a decision to not go that route, simply because, I don’t keep in mind any particular merchandise on the time, however I really feel like there have been a few excessive profile 3D printing missteps.
In the end, there’s simply not that a lot totally different a few Kickstarter versus your personal pre-order marketing campaign, however the visibility is totally different.
So we labored with LDO who had made some elements for the unique printer, however had actually saved us with making a customized extruder motor. That was one of many defining issues. We moved from air stress again to a stepper motor pushed system.
Dale Dougherty: Is that type of the center of the machine?
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah, so I’ve an attention-grabbing prototype as a result of it’s unusual colours, however of the newer extruder right here, and there’s this lead screw within the center.
I suppose individuals will likely be listening to this via audio, however there’s a stepper motor with a non-captive lead screw, and the lead screw can undergo the middle of the stepper motor. And LDO customized made one, we have been like, we would like this a lot drive they usually mentioned, “okay, positive.” And it was one thing that we had tried to supply and couldn’t. In order that was, an enormous sport changer.
And so then they did about 75 p.c of the kits. They’d ship the containers to us. After which we’d put in the remainder of it. So all of the electronics have been being made within the U.S. by UltiMachine. Another numerous issues both we have been making or printing or sourcing or sourcing after which ending off at our place. We did all the ultimate stuff at our workplace.
Dale Dougherty: Incredible.
Ellie Weinstein: Simply going again somewhat bit, launched it for pre-sale, hoped for 50 pre-orders within the first two weeks. I obtained 50 within the first 24 hours. And I hit 100, and once I hit 100 I mentioned, okay, I really feel assured sufficient on this that I can rent somebody. So I employed somebody full time.
Dale Dougherty: To do what?
Ellie Weinstein: Small firms, you’re employed on the whole lot. She did documentation, a few of the work on serving to to interface between the individual doing my programming, who’s a contractor, and I, as a result of I don’t know very a lot about programming. I do know sufficient to love, work with individuals, however to not do it myself. I don’t know, prototyping, placing issues collectively. There’s so much that goes into similar to, how do you construct one thing? How do you inform individuals the way to assemble it?
Dale Dougherty: And you must reply the telephone.
Ellie Weinstein: And so she was doing all of that.
Dale Dougherty: Or the e-mail that folks have, proper?
Ellie Weinstein: Oh yeah, we had some one on one Zoom calls with individuals. It was extra within the earlier days once we have been promoting a costlier machine. However yeah. We did that and ultimately we launched the printer. Much less individuals than I might have hoped…
Dale Dougherty: What’s the timeframe on that? When was that?
Ellie Weinstein: Fall of 2023, so simply over a yr in the past. We, I consider, began delivery in October and all of a sudden had to determine how will we ship? And much more than that, how will we make sufficient chocolate in right here?
As a result of that was a complete different facet of that is, after all, your chocolate recipe. What chocolate do you employ? After which who do you’re employed with to get it made, or do you do it your self? And I wished to outsource it, however chocolate retailers usually are not used to creating cylindrical, air bubble-free, steam free goodies with very excessive tolerances as a result of they’re utilized in your system nearly as a mechanical seal.
Now we simply develop our personal gear to do our personal chocolate.
Dale Dougherty: And so the individuals, to be clear, the individuals who purchase the machine, purchase your chocolate.
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah, it comes with, 20 of our CocoaCores. And a few individuals use their very own chocolate, however we at all times say it’s simpler to make use of ours. However we’re not going to lock you out of doing your personal factor.
Dale Dougherty: Yeah.
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah, and so it went properly. We had to determine how will we ship it. The primary week we tried to ship 10 machines, and I forgot that I don’t understand how troublesome that packing course of was going to be and studying about the way to ship issues, studying about UPS pickups, stuff that we’re a lot better at now.
Dale Dougherty: So what did you begin seeing individuals doing with the Cocoa Press Printer?
Ellie Weinstein: Every thing. That was the best half. It was like, I made the machine. I didn’t know what it may do. Individuals have discovered the way to do guide shade swaps to do multicolor issues, which we’re now making simpler with our new machine. However individuals, somebody purchased it for his or her marriage ceremony to make their very own marriage ceremony favors as a result of it was going to be cheaper than doing marriage ceremony favors after which that they had a chocolate printer on the finish of it.
Dale Dougherty: Let me ask you, does it require a number of experience to determine it out different than simply apply and doing it again and again? While you say the marriage couple, I wouldn’t anticipate that they’re chocolatiers or something. They simply wished to determine they usually’ve obtained a deadline to, produce all these items.
Ellie Weinstein: With our machine I might say studying the chocolate facet is manner simpler than studying the 3D printing facet. So I would be the first to inform somebody for those who’re occupied with shopping for the printer, simply know you’re going to should put somewhat little bit of time into studying the way to use it. It’s not going to work precisely like your Prusa or Bambu. It’s somewhat bit totally different. And for those who haven’t 3D printed earlier than, you may positively study it. You’ll be able to study something, however you’re gonna should put a while into it. It’s not plug and play.
Dale Dougherty: And yeah, in case you have the endurance, that’s the principle factor.
Ellie Weinstein: Precisely. It’s a must to have the endurance. And other people reply to that in numerous methods, however I don’t need the indignant assist emails. I need individuals to be pleased with what they purchase. That’s what we’re doing, proper? We’re doing it completely for enjoyable.
Dale Dougherty: So actually you would take into consideration, you probably did 9 years as much as whenever you lastly shipped an actual product.
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah.
Dale Dougherty: Then for principally a yr you’ve been delivery.
Ellie Weinstein: It’s the I believe from the surface it, it has seemed nearly like an in a single day success, that I’ve labored on for a decade now. And likewise its at all times seemed prefer it was going properly from the surface. That was one thing I at all times struggled with. It’s similar to, how do I be optimistic, but additionally be real, and it wasn’t going properly a number of the time.
Dale Dougherty: I love that persistence. It takes a number of stubbornness to undergo that. And I really feel just like the mannequin that’s on the market a number of instances for entrepreneurship is, oh, it ought to take about three months to do one thing, and about six months to achieve success, and a yr earlier than you money out.
Ellie Weinstein: Yep. Now we’re going with the sluggish development.
Dale Dougherty: Gradual and regular.
Ellie Weinstein: I don’t even name us a startup on a regular basis anymore as a result of I nearly really feel like we function someplace between the startup and the small enterprise mannequin. I’m not making an attempt to develop to be 100 individuals. I’m not on the lookout for VC cash anymore. I simply need this to have the ability to maintain itself, develop somewhat bit, for positive.
Dale Dougherty: Yeah, however I believe the outstanding factor that makers ought to understand, in the event that they don’t, is that this sort of mannequin, and I hope you’re in a position to maintain it, however you’re using individuals. You’re doing a number of good to have a enterprise that folks take pleasure in working at, the shoppers you serve take pleasure in your product, and it’s significant.
It’s serving to them make a residing doing different issues. It’s that complete ecosystem that you simply’ve linked and, it’s not about cashing out, it’s actually I believe constructing one thing that lasts and simply making an attempt to construct a product that’s good.
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah. I don’t know the way to say this with out sounding cliche or no matter, however we do what we would like at Cocoa Press. We’re absolutely, it’s at all times arduous to rent individuals for Cocoa Press as a result of they are saying, what are the precise job duties? And I say, right here’s the core of the job. After which right here’s the whole lot else we may do. And also you decide. If you happen to’re all in favour of advertising, if you wish to study search engine marketing, and Google AdSense and stuff, we will do advertising there. If you happen to love occasions, and Maker Faires, and RepRap festivals, we’ll put our cash in direction of these. Which is clearly what we’ve picked, we don’t do any paid advertising for the time being.
However it actually is simply what’s an organization if it’s not the individuals? And so we simply attempt to have enjoyable with one another and do what we would like. And that’s how…
Dale Dougherty: However that’s a creation too, proper? That’s one thing you’ve created. You’ve made it attainable for individuals to work like that. And it’s actually significant.
Ellie Weinstein: I respect that. And going again to, when Ricky, who’s the, CEO of Allevi, would come by my workplace, the opposite factor that he would at all times say to me is, innovation is not only the product. Innovation is the enterprise mannequin. Innovation is the way you join together with your prospects.
I don’t know if he mentioned this, however I might add, what your organization’s tradition is. And I believe we’ve been in a position to be progressive in a number of of these fronts. Which is cool, it’s enjoyable.
Dale Dougherty: So let me simply ask you a final query. What’s the long run maintain then? I get it out of your reply, actually, to maintain doing what you’re keen on doing.
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah, we’re actually enthusiastic about Cocoa Press 2. We’re excited to launch it internationally. I get emails each single day from individuals in Europe and different international locations asking after they can get it. I do know some individuals have secretly shipped it to a forwarder or somebody to export in another country. However I cannot ship it internationally, proper now. Cocoa Press 2, we are going to.
Dale Dougherty: Is that primarily about assist?
Ellie Weinstein: It’s about assist. It’s about simply my period of time to determine taxes. Tough issues. I’m struggling sufficient simply determining the way to do taxes in 50 totally different states or determining which of these states I must.
Additionally, about how do you ship chocolate internationally? Within the U. S., we ship chocolate within the hotter months solely on Monday or Tuesday. As a result of we don’t want it in a warehouse over the weekend. It’s similar to bizarre little methods like that we’ve picked up through the years. So the way forward for Cocoa Press is get extra individuals to have the ability to do it. In some unspecified time in the future, I need to have the ability to cut back the price of the machine.
We took large steps in having pre-orders be $1,200, which is the least costly Cocoa Press has ever been. That may return up, after all. We’re additionally beginning a complete different facet of the corporate. We’re not speaking about it a ton proper now, however we did not too long ago purchase Alien 3D. And so they do month-to-month 3D printing undertaking containers.
And so we’re going to have the ability to simply do, we’ll run this as a very separate model and we’ll have the ability to do extra enjoyable issues in 3D printing. I believe one of many coolest elements about operating Cocoa Press is we get to determine the place we spend our cash and who we do enterprise with. As a result of I wish to work with cool individuals, moral individuals, and we simply wish to make pleasure, proper? Like we do chocolate, we’re going to be doing 3D printing tasks in order that individuals who don’t know what to do with their 3D printers can do some actually cool stuff. And so I believe there’ll be somewhat little bit of diversification of what we’re doing.
Dale Dougherty: I’ve to say one factor. I keep in mind going to Maker Faire Tokyo and seeing a 3D printer. There’s type of these Japanese sweets, they’re type of mushy they usually had a printer there in all probability with a syringe kind injection into it, however they have been having, it was in all probability like school college students, a bit such as you. However they have been there.
It was simply such enjoyable to, you understand, it’s good to not see plastic. And it’s good to see issues popping out of a printer that, that which might be as enjoyable as chocolate.
Ellie Weinstein: Yeah, I like seeing all of the loopy issues individuals do. And, I additionally like that the chocolate trade could be very pleasant, and the 3D printing trade is definitely very pleasant. And I do know the opposite people who find themselves doing 3D printed meals, 3D meals printers, and 3D chocolate printers. Like I, I simply emailed them and I’m like, “Hey? How’s your product going?”
Dale Dougherty: So if somebody you hadn’t seen for 10 years got here as much as you and requested you in a single sentence to explain what you do, how would you reply that?
Ellie Weinstein: In the event that they requested like what I do now?
Dale Dougherty: Yeah, proper.
Ellie Weinstein: I simply say that I make 3D printers that print chocolate. And if my mother is round me, she goes, “No. You designed the printer, you invented the printer.” And it’s making an attempt to offer me somewhat bit extra credit score, the place I simply, you understand. I take credit score, I take extra credit score than I deserve from everybody who labored on the design crew, to individuals who have been at Cocoa Press, to my present crew. However, that’s the manner.
Dale Dougherty: Let’s wrap it there. Thanks, Ellie, to your time. It was fantastic studying about, actually this 10 yr journey that you simply’ve been on. And I hope for a few years into the long run.
Ellie Weinstein: Thanks. And clearly, thanks for the whole lot you’ve finished with Make, that actually was my begin. And I didn’t point out that I obtained to satisfy Miguel, who made the pancake printer, which was one other considered one of my inspirations. And we really went to Maker Faire Rome collectively at one level.
And yeah, thanks for the whole lot you’ve finished as properly.
Dale Dougherty: Alright, take care.
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