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DOUG AAMOTH. Cryptographic bugs, smart cybersecurity rules, a cryptocurrency conundrum, and a brand new Firefox sandbox.
All that and extra on the Bare Safety podcast.
[MUSICAL MODEM]
Welcome to the podcast, all people.
I’m Doug. He’s Paul…
PAUL DUCKLIN. I wouldn’t have mentioned “conundrum”, Doug.
I might need mentioned “disaster” or “enterprise as ordinary”… however let’s go away that till later, we could?
DOUG. I used to be barely diplomatic, however sure, “disaster” most likely would have been higher… keep tuned for that one.
Effectively, we like to begin the present with a Enjoyable Truth, and the Enjoyable Truth for this week is that on its patent software, the title for the pc mouse was not-quite-as-succinct: “X-Y place indicator for a show system.”
When requested concerning the origin of the mouse title, its inventor, Douglas Engelbart, recalled, “I simply appeared like a mouse with a tail, and all of us referred to as it that.”
DUCK. The opposite title to recollect, there may be, after all, Invoice English, who is actually the co-inventor.
Engelbart got here up with the concept of the mouse, based mostly on a tool referred to as a planimeter, which had fascinated him when he was a child.
And he went to Invoice English, his colleague, and mentioned, “Are you able to construct one among these?”
Apparently it was carved out of mahogany… you’ve seen the pics, Doug.
DOUG. It’s beautiful, sure.
DUCK. It’s fairly chunky!
And is it true – I feel you’ve mentioned this on a earlier podcast – that that they had the cable popping out of the incorrect facet at first?
DOUG. At first they did, popping out of the wrist finish, sure.
DUCK. And once they flipped it spherical, clearly, it’s a tail… it could actually solely be a mouse!
DOUG. Effectively, thanks for that, Mr. Engelbart.
Regardless of the cases of repetitive stress harm and carpal tunnel syndrome… aside from that, the mouse has gone swimmingly.
It’s an aptly named peripheral, and talking of issues which might be aptly named: we now have a Mozilla bug referred to as “BigSig”.
So, I ponder what that could possibly be about?
DUCK. Strictly talking, it’s CVE-2021-43527.
It was discovered by well-known serial bug-hunting skilled from Google, Tavis Ormandy.
It was an old-fashioned buffer overflow that no one had observed for years and years and years, contained in the cryptographic library referred to as NSS, quick for Community Safety Providers.
Mozilla has all the time used NSS in all of its merchandise, as a substitute of utilizing one thing like OpenSSL, which a lot of our listeners will find out about, and as a substitute of utilizing the native implementations on every working system.
Microsoft has its Schannel, or Safe Channel; Apple has Safe Transport; however Mozilla, wherever it could actually, has mentioned,”We’re going to stay with this one explicit library.”
They’re not the one organisation to make use of it – it turns on the market are fairly just a few different merchandise which have included NSS.
There’s a degree when it allocates an space in reminiscence to retailer all the information it must do a signature verification, and one of many stuff you want whenever you’re verifying a signature is a public key.
The largest key you’d *ever* want is *absolutely* going to be an RSA key of 16 kilobits, which no one actually wants as a result of it’s manner larger than you want even in the present day to be safe.
[IRONIC TONE]. It’s very time consuming to create 16 kilobit keys, so it’s *sure* to be large enough, Doug.
DOUG. So it’s basically there’s a measurement restrict to the important thing.
The keys within the wild, even the largest RSA ones that we’ve sometimes seen, are 1 / 4 of the utmost measurement.
DUCK. Sure.
DOUG. However should you ship over a key that’s larger than the allotted measurement, there’s no measurement verify to say this secret’s too large?
DUCK. There may be now!
BOTH. [LAUGHTER]
DUCK. There’s a perform added…
Sadly, as Tavis Ormandy identified, the information that instantly follows in reminiscence – in different phrases, the stuff that’s going to get overwritten – does embrace what are referred to as perform pointers.
Perform pointers are information objects that decide how this system behaves – the place it goes in reminiscence to execute code sooner or later – and whenever you get an overwrite like that, [A] a crash is nearly assured, and [B] there may be all the time a risk, as a result of you’ll be able to determine the right way to divert this system on the different finish, that you might get distant code execution.
DOUG. That solutions the “Who cares?” query that I used to be going to ask in a extra tactful manner, however…
DUCK. Let’s return to that “who cares?”
Actually, what we’ve answered is, “Why care?”
The “who cares?” is, clearly, anyone utilizing Firefox, which might be the very best recognized and most generally used Mozilla product.
Besides that, for causes that I don’t absolutely perceive and weren’t disclosed by Mozilla, the one product that simply occurs to not be susceptible to this (possibly it does the dimensions verify elsewhere?) is Firefox – excellent news!
DOUG. Sure!
DUCK. Nevertheless, even in their very own safety advisory, the Mozilla workforce members explicitly listed as susceptible:
Thunderbird, which is Mozilla’s e mail shopper,
Evolution, which is an open supply calendar app that I feel a whole lot of Linux desktop customers most likely have, and
A doc viewer extensively used on Linux referred to as Evince.
However maybe essentially the most regarding is LibreOffice, most likely the most well-liked free and open supply various to Microsoft Workplace, that not solely makes use of NSS, but in addition, a minimum of on Home windows, contains its personal model of the DLL the place the bug exists.
So in case you are utilizing LibreOffice, then final week, when the bug notification got here, you most likely ignored it since you thought, “Mozilla doesn’t have an effect on me. LibreOffice has bought nothing to do with them.”
Nevertheless it seems that you just do must improve.
In case you are utilizing LibreOffice, they’ve now put out an replace: 7.2.4 is what you need.
DOUG. [QUIET TYPING SOUNDS] Simply looking out my very own system right here.
Would you say the NSS3.DLL file that I discovered in my Tor browser that hasn’t been modified since 1999… would that be one thing I’d wish to look into?
DUCK. That’s worrying, as a result of after I checked my Tor browser model, it didn’t have the most recent NSS, however it had a newer one than 1999, in order that timestamp could also be incorrect.
Possibly re-download Tor, Doug, and see?
DOUG. Sure, possibly I’ll do this.
It’s been fairly some time since I’ve used that or up to date it.
DUCK. Sure, of all of the browsers that you just most likely wish to keep away from having [LAUGHS] exploitable privateness violating holes in…
DOUG. Yesssss… [LAUGHS}
DUCK. …Tor may be the one that you start with.
DOUG. It will be right at the top of that list, actually.
DUCK. Depending on what you’re using it for.
DOUG. We’ll add that to my to-do list!
If you’d like to read more, and see some sample code you can use to check the NSS versions on your systems, that article is called: Mozilla patches critical BigSig cryptographic bug – here’s how to track it down and fix it.
And on the theme of fixing things, we move on to what seems like sensible legislation to protect consumers from lazy, lazy security on IoT devices.
DUCK. That’s correct, Doug.
The US was probably the first country to try and get serious about this, and the US can be very influential when it comes to telling device manufacturers, “Thou shalt do the right thing,” without having laws that are unpopular.
Because the US can just go, “OK you can do what you like. But if you wish to sell to the Federal Government, here are the standards that we’ve decided we want you to stick to.”
They can influence things without saying, “We’re going to have a law that applies to everyone.”
They’re saying you can sell, but you can’t sell where the real money is, into the Federal Government market.
This is the UK, where the government doesn’t quite have that kind of purchasing power, particularly for IoT devices.
So they’ve been dancing around this for a couple of years, and they’ve got a parliamentry Bill.
Remember, a Bill is what it’s called before it actually gets enacted in parliament and then gets Royal Assent.
So, a Bill means it’s a proposed legislation, like in the US, and it’s called “PSTI”, for Product Security and Telecommunications infrastructure.
And I admit, when I first saw that, I thought, “Uh-oh, here we go. It’s going to be about backdooring encryption all over again. Telecoms!”
DOUG. Indeed.
DUCK. Quite the opposite.
It’s basically saying that we’re just going to set three minimum things: “Must be at least *this* tall to go on the ride if you want to sell IoT devices.”
It’s still a long way off – it still has to become an Act, get its Royal Assent, and then apparently they’re talking about having a 12-month sunrise period while you get your act in gear.
Tell us what you think of these, Doug… there are three simple things that they want you to bring to the party.
DOUG. They start out very simple and get slightly more complex, but not really that hard.
I mean, the first one is just a no-brainer.
DUCK. “Default passwords. Can’t have them!”
DOUG. The problem it solves is someone like me, back when I was getting interested in cybersecurity, I shouldn’t have been able to sit in a coffee shop, and find a Linksys router, and know that the username was admin and the password was admin.
Most people don’t change that because they don’t know anything about that when they’re setting up their router.
DUCK. Or they know perfectly well about it…
DOUG. And they don’t care.
DUCK. It warns them right at the end, And it says at that some future time, you may want to change this…
…and users think, “That’s a true statement,” but doesn’t make you do it, does it?
DOUG. No. [LAUGHS]
DUCK. However should you adopted Douglas Aamoth’s recommendation and bought a password supervisor?
10 seconds work to do it.
DOUG. Sure. Do it!
DUCK. After which when your advert system magically begins working, it’s a minimum of a bit totally different from all people else’s.
In order that’s a begin, “No default passwords.”
DOUG. And the following, one barely extra difficult however nonetheless essential: a dependable solution to disclose vulnerabilities to you.
Should you’re an organization, you want to have the ability to take these, and act upon them.
DUCK. It’s not that tough.
We spoke about it, didn’t we, on the podcast not way back: yourwebsitename forward-slash safety.
DOUG. Straightforward!
DUCK. And other people go there and it says, “Right here’s how one can inform us.”
I perceive individuals’s frustration, in some circumstances, the place they actually can not ship a bug report that they don’t even need cash for – they only would love to inform someone, and might’t!
How do you police that? I don’t know.
However a minimum of they’re saying, “Come on, guys. How exhausting is it to have a standardised e mail tackle that really works?”
DOUG. It’s additionally most likely not a foul place to place… nearly very like you’d discover the elements on the facet of a field of meals, you place your safety elements on the safety web page to inform individuals how you’re securing your units within the first place.
“Right here’s what we’re doing. Right here’s the right way to contact us. Right here’s what to search for in a bug report.”
DUCK. Sure, Chester and I spoke about that in a current podcast, I feel whenever you had been on trip, Doug.
About strikes within the US to require {hardware} and software program producers to supply, should you like, a Safety Invoice of Supplies.
I feel this Invoice is a child step that results in the potential of really realizing what’s in your product.
Doesn’t appear an excessive amount of to ask, does it?
DOUG. It doesn’t!
OK, so, the third merchandise on this listing: we talked about no common default passwords; an affordable solution to disclose vulnerabilities; the third factor, this is likely to be the best.
It’s simply most likely a resourcing subject for many corporations: that you must inform your consumers how lengthy you’re going to supply safety fixes for the merchandise that they’re shopping for.
DUCK. I think that would be the most controversial with producers, as a result of they’ll go, [WHINY VOICE] “Effectively, we don’t know. It relies upon. We’d not promote a lot of that system, after which we’ll make one other one, and that sells brilliantly. And we don’t need to put the identical quantity of safety effort into each of them.”
That’s the place I can envisage producers pushing again on the grounds of cheapness.
And I feel this may change into an ever rising subject – or I hope it would – for environmental causes, as nicely.
I feel it was on that very same podcast with Chester, the place he was describing some IoT hacking analysis he did a number of years in the past…
He went out and acquired all these units: mild bulbs, this, that and the opposite.
A few of them had been out of assist *earlier than he even opened the field*! [LAUGHS]
He he has these Web-enabled mild bulbs, and he mentioned, “They’re fairly good, however principally, they’re all caught on purple…
DOUG. [LAUGHS]
DUCK. …from after I was taking part in round with controlling them.”
And there isn’t even a manner that you might connect with them domestically and reprogram them: they’re principally misplaced in area.
In fact, the critics of this regulation say, “You want extra tooth than that,” as a result of all that’s going to occur is that producers will flood the market with an affordable system, after which they’ll dissolve that firm and are available again with a brand new one.
They’ll let their vendor say, “Sorry, we will’t enable you with updates. The producer’s out of enterprise.”
Now, I’m positive that we have already got legal guidelines that shield customers from individuals intentionally folding their firm as a way to evade rules… however policing that is clearly going to be the exhausting factor.
No less than it’s waving some placards within the face of the IoT market.
Within the dialogue that they’ve bought about this Invoice, the UK authorities has provide you with some examples, and I feel that it was solely one-in-five of the distributors that they surveyed had any form of vulnerability disclosure course of.
And should you don’t have a vulnerability disclosure course of, then you’ll be able to’t have any dedication to upgrades!
Since you go, “I’ve executed all of the upgrades I feel we’d like.”
DOUG. Proper!
DUCK. However 50 individuals have been making an attempt to let you know about 49 totally different vulnerabilities.
It’s superb how difficult this straightforward factor will get when, or if, you’re coping with part of the market that’s decided to not comply.
DOUG. Sure, we’ll regulate that.
Numerous nice feedback on the article, so head on over there if you wish to learn and reply.
The article is named IoT units should shield customers from cyber hurt, says UK authorities, on nakedsecurity.sophos.com.
Now, time for “This Week in Tech Historical past.”
Whereas we talked concerning the handy-dandy mouse earlier within the present, this week, on December 9, 1968, the mouse’s inventor Douglas Engelbart gave the primary public demo of the mouse to a crowd of about 1000 at a computing convention.
The mouse demo was a part of an extended 90-minute presentation that additionally touched on topics similar to hypertext and video conferencing.
Actually, the mouse demo could have nearly been one thing of an afterthought.
The principle presentation was for a “Pc Primarily based Interactive Multi-Console Show System for Investigating Ideas by which Interactive Pc Aids can Increase Mental Functionality.”
So it sounds just like the early early days of AI…
DUCK. [WHISTLE OF APPRECIATION]. That’s when press releases had been press releases, Doug.
DOUG. Oh, sure, sir!
DUCK. Wowee! Capital letters! That’s fairly a title!
Mainly, it was, “In 50 years, I jolly nicely hope there’s an Web. Attempt to make it occur, guys.” [LAUGHS]
DOUG. Sure!
I noticed the flyer – there’s a photograph of the flyer for this speech.
They mentioned that there could be a demo room obtainable, as a result of they had been principally streaming this presentation to a distant location.
DUCK. [AMAZEMENT] In 1968?!
DOUG. Sure, how about that!?
DUCK. “The Mom of all Demos,” it’s now generally known as.
Yow will discover the entire thing on YouTube… you suppose, “Oh, that was apparent,” however it jolly nicely wasn’t apparent in 1968!
DOUG. Precisely!
[IRONIC] And due to pioneering applied sciences similar to that, we now have issues like cryptocurrency and the power to promote a few of it and purchase a few of it on the identical time, whereas not really promoting any of it, and simply making free cash.
Proper, Paul?
Is that the way it works on this story?
DUCK. “Cryptocurrency Firm Disaster,” who would have thought?
MonoX is the corporate on this case.
As not too long ago as, I feel, the 23 November – they weren’t fairly dwell so far as I do know, however they’ve a weblog article from that date – they had been saying. “We’re not buying and selling publicly but, however we’re practically there, and we’re going to revolutionise decentralised finance. We’re going to confide in all people. We’ve had three software program audits. We’ve been dwell testing for 3 months. We’re able to go.”
And sadly, it already appears as if the roof has caved in.
As a result of such as you mentioned, they allowed you to commerce the MonoX token, and it turned out that should you simply withdrew the cash from your self and paid it again to your self – and it actually does appear to be so simple as this – they did the subtraction of the quantity that was taken out of your steadiness, *however they didn’t commit that but*.
After which they took the steadiness you had *earlier than the subtraction*, they usually added within the new quantity and that’s what bought finalised.
So that you principally bought the plus (much less a price, I suppose), *with out the minus going by means of*.
So apparently someone simply wrote a contract that did a load of transactions with a script in a loop that bought their very own tokens to themselves again and again, accumulating worth.
After which as soon as they’d bought all the worth obtainable, they went, “Let’s spend it.”
And so they mopped up by shopping for a complete load of different cryptocoins and making an attempt to money them out.
$31 million later… oh, expensive!
DOUG. Unreal.
DUCK. Sure. Blunders may be costly!
Simply since you’ve had a software program audit, and also you’ve executed a little bit of testing, doesn’t imply that somebody isn’t prepared for you.
[ORATORICALLY] “The value of not dropping your $31 million is everlasting vigilance.”
DOUG. [LAUGHS] That’s the issue: the $31 million mistake!
It’s good to catch it early like this, however to not the tune of $31 million.
So, they’re speaking about both getting the authorities concerned, and/or they’ve made a plea to the attacker saying, “Please give us our a reimbursement. Please.”
DUCK. I’m guessing that they’re remembering that Poly Networks hack that we spoke about just a few weeks again, the place someone pinched $600 million, should you don’t thoughts, after which began bragging about it.
After which they ended up being good to the individual and calling him – what did they name him? – “Mr. White Hat.”
They mentioned, “You’ll be able to preserve half a millionn However please give us the remainder again.”
Lo and behold, they bought nearly all of it again!
So I feel that MonoX… they’re sort of hoping that the individual will do the identical factor.
However I think they’re dreaming, Doug, as a result of by all accounts, from individuals who have been monitoring this, a minimum of among the cash that whoever it was made off with has already been shoved by means of what’s referred to as a glass.
That’s a kind of cryptocurrency exchanges that does a complete load of redundant loopy-bloopy transactions that blend cryptocoins collectively to allow them to’t simply be traced again.
So it’s a wait and see…
DOUG. They did say “please”, and the facility of please bought Poly Networks off the hook!
So we’ll regulate this story.
However if you wish to learn up on the preliminary ramifications, that article is named: Cryptocurrency startup fails to subtract earlier than including – loses $31 million on nakedsecurity.sophos.com.
And our ultimate story of the day: Firefox. A brand new replace!
DUCK. Oh, sure!
DOUG. Lots of fixes, and a brand new enjoyable sandbox.
DUCK. That’s right, Doug.
There’s a complete lot of bugs mounted – safety holes – as you’ll anticipate: Mozilla is fairly good at that.
So there are:
Potential distant code execution holes, although no one is aware of the right way to exploit but that we all know of.
Elements that didn’t uninstall accurately, abandoning bits even after you’ve eliminated them.
Methods that would enable a web site to determine which apps you had put in in your pc – info that was not purported to leak out, as a result of each little bit helps crooks mapping your community.
I perceive there’s additionally an attention-grabbing bug the place an attacker may create an online web page that made your cursor seem within the incorrect place.
That simply appears like an annoyance, doesn’t it?
Besides that if the crooks can get you to suppose you’re clicking on “No! Cancel! DEFINITELY DO NOT do that,” when in truth you’re clicking on “Like this very a lot certainly,” that could possibly be a critical safety gap!.
DOUG. [LAUGHS]
DUCK. They mounted all that stuff, so go to Assist > About and verify you’ve bought the most recent Firefox.
Should you’re on the bleeding-edge model, that ought to be “95.0” from Tuesday of this week.
The opposite factor they’ve executed, as you say, they’ve launched yet one more sandboxing know-how into Firefox.
It’s referred to as “RLBox” – and I searched excessive and low, left and proper, and I couldn’t discover who or what RL was, so I’m assuming it simply means runtime library.
DOUG. Sure, I used to be going to say, “runtime library”…
DUCK. It’s an attention-grabbing know-how for the programmers amongst our listeners.
It lets you separate an software from the shared libraries it hundreds: in Home windows that’s one thing like a DLL; in Linux or Unix, it could be a .so, for “shared object file”; on macOS, they’re often referred to as .dylib, “dynamic library”.
The thought is that they’re program fragments, should you like, that you just suck into reminiscence at runtime, so that you don’t must have them constructed into this system.
That manner, should you don’t want a video participant, for instance, then it doesn’t need to be in reminiscence with this system.
However the entire downside with a shared library is that, whenever you load it into reminiscence, it interacts with the remainder of your code as if it had been compiled proper into the appliance within the first place.
So, they’re what’s referred to as “in-process” libraries.
In different phrases, when you’re utilizing a shared library, it’s very exhausting to say, “Oh, I wish to load the shared library, however I wish to run it in a totally separate working system course of, the place it has its personal reminiscence area in order that it could actually’t do no matter it desires; it could actually’t misbehave and begin peeking at different net pages already in reminiscence in the principle app.”
So, a shared library basically turns into a part of the app.
If you wish to have two processes that run individually, you need to design your app like that within the first place, or go and do an terrible lot of retrofitting.
My understanding is what they’ve tried to do with RLBox is that they’ve supplied a manner which you can load a shared library, however it will get put into just a little protected area of its personal, after which the RLBox sandbox manages the perform calls, the subroutine calls, that go between the principle program and the shared library.
These calls are now not fairly as tightly coupled, reminiscence and safety clever, as they in any other case would have been.
You need to fiddle along with your program a bit, however you don’t need to go and rip the entire thing aside and begin once more.
So it’s a manner of retrofitting safety the place beforehand that will have been very tough certainly.
Up to now, it’s only some issues that get handled on this manner: they’ve bought part of the font rendering course of separated; they’ve the spelling checker that’s constructed into Firefox separated; and something to do with taking part in OGG-format information.
In order that’s all they’ve executed to this point – it’s not quite a bit, however it’s a begin.
And, apparently, within the subsequent month they are going to add this separation for XML file parsing, which is one other wealthy supply of bugs in any purposes that course of XML information, and likewise extra basic safety for font rendering.
Many, if not most web sites lately don’t depend on the fonts that you just’ve set in your browser.
They really say, “No, I would like you to make use of this cool wanting font that I selected,” they usually package deal the font into the net web page and ship it throughout.
And the format is named WOFF: Net Open Font Format.
In fact, parsing fonts that come from an untrusted supply is admittedly, actually difficult.
So when you’ve got a bug in your font processing, it means someone may use a boobytraped font to take over an online web page, and suck information out of it.
That RLBox safety is coming subsequent.
So it’s a baby-steps begin, however in my view, it’s each an attention-grabbing and an essential one.
DOUG. Very cool!
OK, so you’ll be able to obtain the most recent Firefox, or head over to Bare Safety and browse this text referred to as: Firefox replace brings a complete new form of safety sandbox.
DUCK. And if that doesn’t give you the results you want, Doug…
DOUG. [LAUGHS] Obtain Lynx!
DUCK. Completely.
I did a verify, really, and the Firefox that I used to be operating whereas I used to be writing that article…
I checked what number of shared libraries had been really loaded: 205, and people issues are all over-and-above what was compiled into this system itself.
Lynx? That has 14.
How instances change!
DOUG. Nonetheless in growth!
Effectively, it’s time for our “Oh! No!”
This might nearly be termed a “No! No!”…
DUCK. [LAUGHS]
DOUG. Reddit person CyberGuy writes:
I labored for an MSP, and the opposite day I had a shopper report that a number of computer systems couldn’t print.
I linked one of many units and tried to ping the printer, and was unsuccessful; then tried to ping the print server, and was additionally unsuccessful.
I assumed this was odd as a result of the person wasn’t distant – they had been sitting possibly 20 toes away from their wi-fi entry level.
I made a decision to hit the gateway, and it nearly instantly dawned on me what the issue was.
This shopper makes use of Ubiquiti entry factors, and upon accessing the net administration portal, I used to be greeted by a login web page for Netgear.
I referred to as the shopper and requested in the event that they presumably knew why this system was linked to a Netgear entry level.
The shopper informed me, “Ah, Sally, the receptionist, introduced that in two weeks in the past as a result of her Web was operating sluggish.”
I used to be surprised that they determined to permit a low-level worker to herald their very own wi-fi entry level from house, plug it in, and permit half of the customers to hook up with it.”
So, as I mentioned, a “No! No!”
DUCK. She really plugged it right into a socket?
DOUG. After which all of the individuals round her linked to it for web.
DUCK. Oh, as a result of phrase bought round, “Hey, Sally’s, entry level is admittedly cool.”
DOUG. “It’s quicker,” sure!
DUCK. The factor is, why would it not be *quicker*?
In all probability, “Hey, it solely has half the restrictions!”
DOUG. Precisely, sure.
DUCK. All of the social media websites which might be usually banned! On-line gaming downloads!
So, 10/10 for initiative?
DOUG. Sure.
DUCK. However 3.5/10 for cybersecurity.
DOUG. And I can let you know, as a former MSP myself, with out even wanting up, the default username for a Netgear router is admin and the default password is password.
So, if these hadn’t been modified? Large bother!
Effectively, when you’ve got an “Oh! No!” – or a “No! No!” – you’d prefer to submit, we’d like to learn it on the podcast.
Electronic mail suggestions@sophos.com; touch upon any of our articles on nakedsecurity.sophos.com; or hit us up on social @NakedSecurity.
That’s our present for in the present day, thanks very a lot for listening.
For Paul Ducklin, I’m Doug Aamoth, reminding you till subsequent time, to…
BOTH. Keep safe!
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