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Torrey Smith, Co-Founding father of Endiatx, is altering the fame endoscopies have for being uncomfortable. At Endiatx, they’re creating a pill-sized robotic that you just swallow, which is able to then livestream your digestive system for a physician to view. Our interviewer Abate dives in.
Torrey SmithTorrey Smith is the Co-Founder & CEO of Endiatx, a medical robotics firm that manufactures tiny robotic capsules able to lively motion contained in the human abdomen with management over web protocol. Previous to launching Endiatx, he developed medical gadgets within the areas of endometrial ablation, atherectomy, therapeutic hypothermia, sleep apnea, and vascular closure.
An aerospace engineer by coaching, he takes a eager curiosity within the deep tech sector and is a proud mentor of up-and-coming founders on the Founder Institute. He’s additionally the principal founding father of the worldwide arts collective referred to as Sextant, and he has had his artwork featured within the Smithsonian.
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——————–transcript——————-Abate De Mey: Welcome to the robo hub podcast. Tremendous excited to have you ever on right here. So Torrey , might you introduce your self just a little bit?
Torrey Smith: Certain, completely. Nicely, you recognize, I initially initially studied aerospace engineering as a result of my purpose was to construct the way forward for science fiction that I had examine as a child.
I had some kin you recognize, come down with some gnarly well being situations. I misplaced an aunt to a mind most cancers. I turned very passionate concerning the world of medical gadgets and perhaps extra importantly, simply well being and know-how and the way we are able to merge these. Proper. As a result of I, I believe if you happen to requested a 14 yr outdated child who reads science fiction, what they suppose the way forward for healthcare appears like, they’d in all probability say, oh, it’s going to be like nano robots.
That may go in like a military of tiny machines and kill any tumor. Proper. Okay. After which if you happen to ask a physician, Hey, I’ve acquired a glioblastoma. What’s my prognosis. The physician’s going to say, properly, we’re going to chop an incision over right here. We’re going to peel your face all the way down to your jaw. I’m going to chop out a chunk of your cranium and put it in a metal dish.
Then I’m going to go in and do my greatest to take away a few of this mind tumor. And we’re going to place you again collectively. We’re going to place you on medicine. , we’ll put you on chemo and you recognize, in six to 9 months, you’re going to be lifeless. So get your affairs. Proper. That’s that’s like the usual of take care of glioblastoma.
And my query is straightforward. The query is what if proper? What if we might do mind surgical procedure from a robotic platform? What if that robotic platform could possibly be bodily very small? , the best way I envision it perhaps rice display measurement, you recognize, I’d like to go molecular degree, however Hey, I’m a knucklehead engineer, you recognize, I’m considering when it comes to objects, I can in all probability work on myself.
So with Endiatx our main mission is to point out the world which you can ship tiny robots into the human physique to do a job, any job. And we’re going to begin that journey humble. And we’re going to begin that journey the place we are able to really make one thing actual. And, you recognize, let me present you what my model of tiny is.
Proper. that that is what I name PillBot and Pillbot. It’s mainly just a little swimming robotic that makes use of 4 little thrusters. We simply use the identical motors you’ll discover in a mobile phone vibrator. We simply take the weights off and put propellers on them. And the purpose with pillbox is simply to create a transferring eyeball within the human abdomen.
And from there, simply see how small we are able to get it and see if we are able to put surgical instruments on it. Proper. But it surely’s, you recognize, it’s crucial to have a tangible product in thoughts. Imagine me, like, we began very humbly with this, with this journey. Proper. , we simply began constructing, utilizing raspberry PI.
Proper. , the essential digital constructing blocks that virtually any child has entry to that helped us to lift just a little bit of cash. And, and we began going to customized electronics and, you recognize, actually stepping out into our personal. You may see the JB Weldon Bebe’s right here. Proper. I didn’t increase any cash with it.
However we stored pushing and we stored innovating and we acquired all the way down to concerning the thumb measurement and, you recognize, we began to get extra funding pursuits from the angel neighborhood at this level. And medical doctors started to take just a little bit extra curiosity in us. And, you recognize, as of immediately, you recognize, I’ve, I’ve personally swallowed 14 of those robots.
I haven’t died but. We, we’ll swallow them and drive them round our stomachs with Xbox controllers. And it’s really a whole lot of enjoyable,
Abate De Mey: how way back did this journey begin?
Torrey Smith: Nicely, we integrated in March of 2019 and the journey actually started, I’d say shut to love October of 2018.
When you recognize, I, if you happen to requested me what I’m now, I’d humbly say like, I’m a, I’m a lowercase CEO, proper? We’ve integrated an organization we’ve raised some cash. We’ve achieved some good with our robots. So that you had been very enthusiastic about it, however I’m, I’m a lowercase CEO. I’m, I’m a CEO. Who’s hoping to do one thing large.
However if you happen to had been to ask me who I used to be in October of 2018, I’d have mentioned I’m a depressed growing old, senior, R and D engineer who’s exhausted with making different folks’s mediocre desires come true. And. The older I acquired, the extra, I simply began to really feel just like the jaws of destiny had been closing on me. Proper? Like my alternative to make some type of a contribution on this world was beginning to diminish.
After which I noticed this focused advert on Fb that mentioned apply, pitcher thought free of charge on the founder Institute. And so I actually felt like, you recognize what, even when I’m ashamed of how outdated I’m or ashamed that I’m not a PhD. Even when I’m afraid that individuals would possibly choose me or inform me this concept of silly, I actually didn’t have something to lose.
So I clicked on that advert. I went and I practiced fish in my firm and I acquired slaughtered.
Abate De Mey: Was this the primary thought that you just pitched?
Torrey Smith: Yeah, yeah. This, it is a, this primary firm that, you recognize, I’d name myself a co-founder on. I’ve been that early worker in earlier firms, which I used to be very pleased with, however that is the primary firm that I did.
Let’s put it that approach. However the founder Institute was a pivotal expertise in my life. It really helped me to tear the bandaid off. It helped me to appreciate that regardless that I usually really feel crushed by imposter syndrome, that I didn’t have to really feel like I couldn’t attempt to do one thing large. And I suppose the factor that I’m, I’m actually grateful for is that they confirmed me the way to get my associates collectively and launch an organization.
, as of immediately, we, you recognize, we’ve, we’ve raised simply over one million {dollars} and put 23 of those robots for our personal our bodies. And, and truly have a few of the greatest medical doctors on this planet now engaged on this crew. So very excited, however the journey started with really, you recognize, the journey started with a pocket book sketch.
Like I can present it proper right here. That is you recognize, that is October 18th, 2018, and my associates and I began drawing robots. We had been considering corkscrews or creepy crawlies or tank treads or inch worms, you recognize, we had been agnostic. We simply needed to in any approach attainable, make this factor occur, you recognize, little, little legs that might transfer round, nitinol meshes, who is aware of how you’ll do it.
Proper. However certainly one of our sketches was submarine and after we had constructed half a dozen mechanical prototypes, Simply achieved horrific issues to pig intestines that we acquired on the native market. My older brother, who’s a Lieutenant Colonel within the air power in a, in a flight surgeon with the 1 44 can be an ER doc over at Kaiser Oakland.
He mentioned, you recognize what, what if you happen to simply drank a bunch of water, might you swim as an alternative of crawl? And that actually helped to crystallize the Endiatx of, of immediately, proper? We’re a quad copter submarines. It’s mainly a drone that you just management, however I’ll inform you one factor. I can’t wait till I can put two cameras on this factor.
Trigger you recognize, I wanna, I wish to get stereoscopic imaginative and prescient and, and swim round inside an enormous affected person’s abdomen. Proper. How cool would that be?
Abate De Mey: Yeah, completely. And simply additionally like discuss what the issue house that you just’re fixing is with this machine.
Torrey Smith: Proper. It is a good level.
Proper? And look, I must be actually trustworthy right here. I simply honesty is I believe the idea for the whole lot else that follows proper. I’m right here as a result of I I’m satisfied that microscopic robotic surgeons in swarms will someday sort out mind tumors and antibiotics means the EMD is to look inside or to go along with him. The DIA DIA is diagnostics to grasp what.
TX is shorthand for therapy to truly repair the issue. So I’m, I’m in it for the lengthy haul. I wish to construct the mind surgical procedure, micro robotic, however folks hold coming again to me and saying, what’s your downside? What’s your resolution? Do you will have product market match? And why ought to I write you a test? Proper.
And to be trustworthy, these are actually good questions. So I even have a solution for our humble capsule bot for our transferring eyeball in his abdomen, which doesn’t even but have surgical instruments. The issue we’re tackling is that if you happen to ask a good friend of yours who might need some GI tract points, it could possibly be Crohn’s or Celiac’s could possibly be GI ache or bleeds.
Now we have extra associates in our, in our, in our private sphere than we’d suppose which have needed to go in and take care of these issues that the usual of care often ends with. Knocking somebody out with sedation and jamming an endoscope into their. To go searching and discover the ulcer or the polyp or the, the bleeding, the bleed web site or the lesion, proper?
Normally in some type, we have to jam a tube into your physique. And sadly, a typical affected person will inform you that it’s not on their first go to to the hospital. Like my very own sister is a nurse. She’s a head. She has wonderful well being care and he or she got here down with Savage, abdomen ache. And I believe it’s like her fourth go to to the hospital.
And two months in three months in, she lastly will get the endoscopy. As a result of we have to do some gatekeeping. Proper? I can’t knock you out simply since you say you will have a bellyache, proper. In the event you’re vomiting blood, I’m going to do this instantly. However for many sufferers first, we have to do some gatekeeping as a result of it’s costly, it’s dangerous.
We are able to, apart from having points with sedation, we’d really poke a gap in you or tear you. Proper? And so first we’re going to attempt you on a weight loss plan. , perhaps you’re consuming one thing that’s inflicting issues, then we’ll attempt you on some antiacid medicine. Possibly, perhaps that’ll remedy an issue. And on the finish of that course of, you’ve gotten to the purpose the place it’s time for an higher business.
The irritating factor is that’s a ten minute process. Normally a physician’s acquired their palms on the affected person manipulating these instruments, 10 to fifteen minutes of lively visible inspection. So our query, our query to the world, to the funding neighborhood as properly. However our query to the world is that this factor prices me 35 bucks to make in my residing.
Okay. We might in all probability make it for twenty-five bucks in, in some type of quantity. What if I might give a physician 10, 15, 20 minutes of lively, actual time inspection in a human abdomen, over a zoom name. what, if that affected person whose stomach is aching might eat their dinner, however skip their breakfast, skip espresso, drink some heat water within the morning to type of rinse out the goo.
And like I’ve achieved 14 instances drink a pair pints of water at lunchtime swallow a robotic. Yeah. Actively examine the within of your abdomen visually in actual time. And what if we might do this tremendous low-cost? Proper. , I can present you the predicate for this world, which might be the superb PillCam.
This was developed by a bunch of Israelis known as given imaging or GI for brief and given created in 1997, the capsule digital camera, a passive platform to examine the Git. And the one challenge is that thus far these items don’t transfer round they usually fell right into a little bit of an uncanny valley of like a one perhaps, perhaps one to three% use case.
That means as cool as capsule cams are, they don’t do way more. And it’s all after the very fact. In order that they’re, they’re utilized in.
Abate De Mey: Yeah, to not point out it’s a couple of days, if something, for it to lastly come again via your complete system and you may really view the video on there.
Torrey Smith: Proper. And our purpose is simply to make use of that platform as a predicate to mainly say, Hey, let’s make a transfer.
Let’s begin to put instruments on them and let’s make them tremendous low-cost. Proper. So if, if I might construct this for 25 bucks, however promote it for the $500 {that a} PillCam capsule. However prevent $15,000 of all this different medical expense. That looks as if an enormous alternative, proper? I imply, truthfully, my purpose is no matter a affected person or an insurers and prices is, you recognize, nevertheless many the visits that was the hospital, regardless of the sedation, the anesthesiologist price, no matter med gadgets had been used to help the occasion.
After which lastly the endoscope itself, both disposable or. Or autoclaved or rinsed out after which doubtlessly carrying an an infection threat, no matter that price was. I wish to do that very same job for one tenth of the associated fee, both to the affected person or to the supplier. Proper. That’s that’s, that’s the purpose. Let’s simply do it approach higher.
Approach, sooner, approach cheaper for an applicable indication to be used.
Abate De Mey: Yeah, however it sounds just like the. Your machine is taking what the, what that capsule bot is. After which including much more options to it, like actuation, like wi-fi transmission. How are you going to take the costs of that, which is at present 500 in a quite simple system after which reduce it down whereas including a lot extra.
Torrey Smith: Certain. Nicely, let’s let’s do this after which make it possible for I wish to give some credit score to a bunch of Chinese language people that incredible engineers, AnX Robotics. I imagine that’s how you’ll name it with the Navicam. Who’re really transferring capsule digital camera’s round utilizing exterior magnetic actuation. So capsule cameras are beginning to transfer and I wish to give credit score the place credit score is due there.
And I’ll communicate to that just a little bit, $500 is the reimbursement code that the corporate would receives a commission, that the OEM would receives a commission for the product. Their price of products goes to be one thing beneath that. Proper. After which that’s how they get, you recognize, some quantity of. My purpose is to get a value of products at 25 bucks.
After which, you recognize, we’ll promote it for no matter is suitable. However let’s distinguish the world of passive capsule cameras to the lively world of endoscopes, the place we are literally transferring round in actual time as a result of the world of capsule cameras hasn’t but achieved a billion {dollars} of, of like market share per yr.
Proper. It’s it’s a, it’s a comparatively area of interest use case for passive. Whereas the world of endoscopes is definitely $67 billion per yr. If we’ll get endoscopes which can be slid into the human physique, it’s this large market. Now let’s, let’s reduce that down just a little bit. Let’s take a look at the GI tract, proper? That’s about $9 billion.
And that’s, that’s actually the place we’re going to focus. About 50% of that’s massive gut, however the basic culinary. About 25% of it’s the abdomen with the stability being the esophagus elements of the duodenum simply after the abdomen after which the rest of the small bowel. So our purpose really is simply to enter the abdomen and we’re really not competing with capsule cameras.
We’re competing with endoscopes. We’re competing with that lively process that a physician works on in actual time. And if I simply mentioned {that a} Chinese language firm is doing magnetic actuation of capsules, I higher provide you with some differentiation on what we’re doing, as a result of we’re primarily direct opponents with that firm who, who we’ve got super respect for.
I wish to be very clear with that. The differentiation can be, I wish to present you your complete finish diotic system. Nicely, it’s capsule purchased every of our little motors price 40 cents. Their mobile phone vibrator motors, simply put a propeller on it. And we have to discuss to the robotic with a USB dongle. We use a low frequency radio.
That’s how we talk via human tissue. That is our system, proper? We don’t have an enormous magnetic machine that you just’ve acquired to lie inside or Ana, and also you don’t must be on the hospital to get this process. We are able to in a single day this to you. You may pair this over a zoom name or a zoom like name, you recognize, it’ll should be HIPAA.
We’ll in all probability have one thing of a customized platform there, however to make use of zoom calls as type of ubiquitous approach to make use of a video name, proper buy video name nowadays, that is our system. And I would like our system to be 25 bucks. And I would like our system to have the ability to operate anyplace on or off the planet. Proper.
A refugee camp you recognize, like a creating nation, perhaps a ahead deployed navy. Space you possibly can use it within the hospital and they’ll get utilized in hospitals will in all probability start this journey in hospitals. However to type of show some extent we not too long ago, whereas we had been engaged on a mechanical engineering challenge, just like the buoyancy, the float skill of our capsule, we acquired within the cockpit of evaluation at three 10 over Watsonville, California, and clawed our approach as much as 11,000 toes and push the nostril right into a ballistic trajectory.
Ultimately pointing nearly straight down. Simply to get a few seconds of weightlessness, proper? As a result of this platform works even higher in outer house. Proper. So the purpose right here is to create a hardcore type of telemedicine initially, specializing in what I believe is essentially the most applicable market, in all probability abdomen.
After which let’s simply see how far we are able to go along with it. Proper?
Abate De Mey: Yeah. So, after which it appears like what you’re suggesting is that this doesn’t even actually must be utilized by a medical skilled a minimum of long run.
Torrey Smith: Okay. So brief time period, I wish to give a physician a gastroenterologist to be particular a one for one substitute of an endoscope for an applicable indication to be used.
So let’s take a look at three issues, a lesion in your abdomen, an ulcer, a a abdomen bleed, one thing like that. These are issues that we are able to search for visually, and we. Pretty quickly. Be capable to inform you if that does or doesn’t exist in your abdomen. In order that’s going to be our first step, proper?
Abate De Mey: And that is remotely operated by a physician.
Torrey Smith: Nicely, that’s the enjoyable half, proper? As a result of proper now, the one approach for a physician to carry out that examination is to have you ever on a hospital mattress, knocked out all of your garments off with tubes jammed in each a part of your physique. After which. That’s a non-trivial second in time to convey each the physician and the affected person to, proper.
You may think about a whole lot of, a whole lot of procedures, like this had been delayed throughout the time of COVID as a result of, you recognize, until you’re actively dying, we don’t need physician affected person contact. We don’t need sufferers within the hospital that may contract or unfold COVID. Proper. So like you will have all these procedures getting delayed.
However let’s be clear. We’re not a COVID firm. We simply recognize how COVID has proven gentle on the worth of telemedicine. And so to your, to your level and your query. Sure, it’s distant, proper? We’ve managed these over web protocol already. One in every of our youngest interns was the one which pulled that off.
He’s now at Stanford, finding out cognitive neuroscience. Science and synthetic intelligence. Good. Proper. However yeah, no, we wish to, we wish to management these over web protocol wherever attainable. And simply, simply mainly, you recognize, step just a little bit additional into that future that all of us need.
Abate De Mey: Yeah, no, it’s very fascinating.
And likewise you touched on earlier about this problem of elevating cash for what you’re needing, what your corporation objectives are proper now and what the present use case is. Proper. Versus what a few of the bigger firm visions are sooner or later. So how has that affected your choices?
Torrey Smith: Nicely, I’d love to like to talk to that just a little bit, you recognize, so, you recognize, if anybody’s listening and also you’ve acquired an fascinating thought.
Actually that is the primary time I name myself a co-founder it’s the primary firm I’ve ever named and we selected a {hardware} enabled FDA regulated firm. Which primarily from an investing standpoint is like two very highly effective slaps to the face. However anybody who’s founding an organization must be ready for a fundraising expertise that’s comparable in problem to sure issues like entering into Harvard or Yale, proper?
Like, like I believe Harvard has one thing alongside the traces of like a 5% acceptance charge and. And but it’s an incredible college from what I’m informed, proper? It’s, it’s a worthy problem to tackle, proper? And because of this you in all probability apply to multiple multiple superior college fundraising for anybody goes to be on common a 1% sure.
Charge, proper? That means you must get a whole bunch of nos earlier than you get a handful of yeses and also you shut across the funding. Proper. And that is one thing. I fortunately was ready for this actuality by founder Institute, they had been very clear about how troublesome and punishing this this surroundings is. However the factor that I recognize about how troublesome fundraising is for everybody is that founding is a spot for passionate founders.
It’s a spot for passionate folks. Imagine deeply in to the very core that there’s one thing good of their thought. Proper? You don’t need folks founding firms who’ve some type of backup plan, proper. As a result of when you’ve got a simple, cheap backup plan, you’re in all probability going to take it when issues begin to appear onerous.
Proper. So I, I’ve a spreadsheet, you recognize, it’s certainly one of my a number of tabs. That exhibits one thing on the order of like 300 frontier well being tech enterprise capital funds that we’ve pitched and hundreds of angel traders that we pitched and we’ve acquired a handful of yeses. And so fundraising is tough for anybody.
{Hardware} regulation goes to make it just a little bit more durable. But it surely additionally means you get to fulfill the folks lively in that house, which is a large. Proper. So I by no means, ever needed to turn into an entrepreneur. I simply needed to have the ability to design tiny robots. That job didn’t appear to be obtainable. So I noticed I needed to go make it proper.
If, if I used to be making an attempt to design an organization for an entrepreneur, it will be, you recognize, some type of telephone app. Proper. However come on, like, that is cool. It even says antibiotics on it. That’s nice. Telephones are nice. I like and respect what we are able to do with ones and zeros, however there’s a world on the market that goes just a little deeper.
Proper? I like that we are able to analyze metadata and study issues that weren’t obvious to us earlier, however I’m really right here for sufferers. Who’re getting a analysis that could be a sure dying sentence, proper? And I’m simply making an attempt to say for the, for, for that affected person inhabitants and for the medical doctors who deal with them, the oncologist, the surgeons, that there’s a group of passionate hackers which can be making an attempt with each fiber of their being to make a brand new world of {hardware} worthy of the world’s greatest software program.
In order that collectively we are able to get. And do one thing about it, proper? Like the primary capsule digital camera was swallowed in 1997. It’s been 25 years, the quarter of a century. It’s time to take the following step.
Abate De Mey: Yeah. And this product is admittedly pushing the frontiers of the particular {hardware} growth too. I imply, if I take into consideration the opposite very, very small micro robots considering a really tiny drones and such, however not, not so much which can be working inside.
One thing as wild as a human physique, that’s heat. moist, acidic the whole lot.
Torrey Smith: Certain, certain. So now’s a superb time to offer some credit score. All proper. As a result of we actually are standing on the shoulders of giants right here. Proper? So to start with, PillCam given imaging, they created the idea of swallowable digital capsules, proper?
These are the founding fathers. Just lately our associates over in China are, are, are taking this to the following degree and saying, let’s make a transfer actively, however right here’s the place the true differentiate differentiation is available in capital tools. And the place is that this process carried out? Let’s give some credit score additional extra to 2 superb people who find themselves bridging the worlds of academia and likewise like superior founders in their very own.
Proper. That’d be Dr. . From the max Planck Institute and Pietro bell Dastyari based mostly in Italy. These guys are doing superb issues with microscopic, really microscopic transferring robots often utilizing some type of exterior magnetic actuation for, for issues that, you recognize, type of begin to method the scale of the top of a pin and even smaller.
After which Dr. Dr. Valdez avenue is doing superb work. With with mushy robotics. These guys are superior. Prefer it they’ve been sort sufficient to type of take me beneath their wing at instances. And, you recognize, I actually look as much as them as like my heroes. If we had been to talk to the differentiation that NDR is taking pictures for the first one can be to decouple the affected person from the hospital go to.
I believe, and the humorous factor, that’s not the rationale we based the corporate. I believe that’s simply one thing we ended up stumbling over is that we determined we’d put all of the tech onto the robotic itself and thus the smaller the robotic will get, the extra locations within the physique will have the ability to go, however we’ll by no means basically require the affected person essentially to be tied to a hospital go to.
And that’s, I believe the place you begin to. Faucet into the type of factor that Peter Diamandis over at X prize challenges, founders to do, which is D monetize dematerialized go 10 instances sooner, higher and cheaper, proper? We’re not on the lookout for incremental enhancements right here. We’re making an attempt to do a complete sea change.
Like let’s flip this iceberg the wrong way up in order that ultimately once we get this proper, we are able to begin to hear tales from sufferers and medical doctors that say, Hey, you really. Change the sport right here, such as you’ve achieved one thing good that that’s the second we’re ready for at antibiotics.
Abate De Mey: Yeah. And it there’s undoubtedly, additionally appears like the kind of procedures that perhaps folks can be hesitant to enter the physician’s workplace to do.
In reality, they’re in all probability hesitant to enter physician’s workplace in any respect. So this may make it extra more likely to have this really be serviced for any individual or perhaps to catch issues early. Is that, is that a part of the marketing strategy?
Torrey Smith: The cheaper we make it the extra accessible we make it. The sooner on common, statistically, we’re going to catch illness, proper?
And this illness is an fascinating phrase as a result of it actually means dis-ease. It means the physique not in its pure state, proper. In our pure state. Our physique is superb at sustaining therapeutic, catching little tiny cancers, and, you recognize, killing them off of the immune. The physique is superb. And the immune system is that could be a deep dive.
In the event you, if you wish to study extra concerning the immune system, proper, that will get way more sophisticated. The extra you study it. The underside line is once we let issues go uncaught and untreated for lengthy intervals of time, you begin to run out of choices. Proper. , we misplaced Steve jobs to pancreatic most cancers and pancreatic most cancers is such a, such a horrible one as a result of.
To begin with, it’s type of onerous to diagnose, you recognize, it, if I used to be to attempt to scream you immediately for pancreatic most cancers, we might do it with a type of endoscopy, proper? Possibly a complete physique MRI perhaps would catch a lump in your pancreas. One other approach can be to jam a tube down your throat. Denner mushy Magus into your abdomen, out the bottom of your abdomen, via the pyloric valve.
And into your small bowel, the primary phase, we’d then go up your bile duct, which empties in, at that location and go up via your bile duct till we discover the pancreas and perhaps do some focused ultrasound there to search for lumps from, from an in depth vary, proper. Or perhaps accumulate some fluid samples.
That process that I’ve simply described will not be a process you give to six billion folks. Proper. That’s that’s not applicable. At a affected person inhabitants degree, we, we are able to’t do this for the usual of care. And so sadly, pancreatic most cancers will get caught at stage 4. Proper. So my query is, what if you happen to’ve acquired a bellyache and also you match the invoice for a capsule bot, perhaps you match the invoice for our subsequent product, which we prefer to name capsule surgeon.
And also you swallow a type of dangerous boys, your physician drives round your abdomen and says, Mr. Smith, do you drink a whole lot of espresso? Trigger I’m seeing an fascinating little lesion right here that type of makes me suppose approach an excessive amount of espresso. Proper. And and, and, and also you’re like, yeah, acquired it. They usually’re like, wonderful.
I believe we all know what to do. I’m going to, I’m going to prescribe you this treatment sit back on this one dietary factor. You’re going to be okay. Nevertheless, whereas we’re. Let me simply drive all the way down to the bottom of your abdomen. May you are taking one other swig of heat water, heat water that triggers a bolus occasion. The abdomen opens up and now we’re admitted into the duodenum or the duodenum.
I’m nonetheless nonetheless engaged on pronunciation and I’m working with worldwide medical doctors. So generally they get completely different, however right here we’re within the first phase of small gut and we see the bile duct, the bile duct is simply this little gap. And so I simply turned to level it and. Let’s advance our digital camera up.
The bile duct, achieved just a little versatile inventory. That’s a fairly cheap factor to request a bunch of Silicon valley engineers. We are able to do this. Let’s put a face to ultrasound array round that digital camera. And you recognize, I’d prefer to name out Dr. Farah modification. Who’s working for butterfly networks proper now on a handheld ultrasound factor as a result of her work at Stanford on swallowable digital capsules that do ultrasound is superb.
And I wish to give some credit score to her for that, however the fundamental thought. We simply inspected your abdomen and located you had an ulcer, however in 5 minutes we are able to display you for pancreatic most cancers, proper? Let’s snake this little probe up your bile duct. Let’s take a look for seen lesions within the duct itself. And let’s, you recognize, let’s zap some ultrasound and see if we see any bizarre lumps.
Proper. After which,
Abate De Mey: so is that this one thing that may at present occur proper now with this product?
Torrey Smith: I imply, what we’re doing is we’re making an attempt to create the platform, the muse, proper. Let me see if I can get. Let’s see. Okay. Oh my native metropolis, some, a utility payments, however I’m gonna use this for a test it out. So that you’ve acquired, there you go.
You see the little thrusters, you see the electrical motors, proper? We’re making a, a, a platform that may transfer round in 5 dimensions, which means XYZ, after which roll about two extra axes. It’s a quad copter. What would you do with the magic college bus? Proper? The purpose is to begin placing surgical instruments, needles.
Let’s do drug supply, tissue sampling, proper? Let’s simply do the whole lot we are able to till we acquired a household of merchandise which can be altering, altering affected person outcomes on the inhabitants degree, altering affected person expenditures on the inhabitants degree, increasing. Till you may handle the wildly disparate affected person populations of the world.
Proper. a typical American with first rate well being protection goes to have one consequence, however there are international locations the place you recognize, within the creating world the place somebody might need to get onto an airplane to fly to an endoscopy clinic, this all adjustments when you may swallow a capsule. And when you’ve got an web connection, let your physician management it over a telephone connection.
Nicely, or let your native physician management it immediately. And never even want the web. Proper. We wish to ensure each choices can be found. In order that’s, that’s, that’s type of a, that’s, that’s type of, a part of what we wish to do is simply first let’s construct a transferring eyeball within the abdomen. I believe there’s a job to do there.
There’s a giant market to disrupt. So we’re very excited from a medical standpoint. We’re additionally very prolonged from a excited, from a enterprise standpoint. However then let’s simply hold going, proper. , we, we’ve got, we’ve got idea sketches and design work achieved that that takes us all the best way all the way down to the rice grain measurement.
I’m unsure that this man goes to have the ability to push this tech past rice grain measurement. I believe in some unspecified time in the future, if we are able to get, if we are able to make this actual, if we are able to show to the world that this has super profit and worth so as to add to our neighborhood If we are able to get a few merchandise to market a couple of generations and actually present that it’s right here and it’s not going anyplace, you recognize, ultimately the instances goes to return to step out of the best way and let different folks take over the reins.
Proper. However within the meantime, we’ve, we’ve, we might very properly have created the regulatory framework for stuff like this to occur. And the framework with which, you recognize, insurance coverage firms would determine the way to interact this type of know-how. Like we’re pleased to do the essential legwork with some humble first.
Abate De Mey: Yeah. And will you maintain up the 2 items once more? You had the, the capsule and the the receiver.
Torrey Smith: Yeah, there we go.
Abate De Mey: So the receiver is outdoors the physique after which that communicates over wi-fi frequency to the capsule itself.
Torrey Smith: So, you recognize, folks ask like, you recognize, are utilizing wifi or Bluetooth.
These are comparatively excessive frequency radio, like very excessive information. While you’re punching via human tissue, which is mainly punching via water increased frequencies are likely to get attenuated and type of they, they get absorbed by water very effectively. So what we do is we take a trick from the U S Navy and we simply begin reducing the frequency till these wavelengths begin to slip via water a lot simpler.
So proper now we’re working about 915 megahertz. Proper now we function within the Laura band, which is. This a packer band obtainable for multi-use. We will certainly tweak the frequency just a little bit, however backside line isn’t round 900 megahertz. You begin with the ability to punch via a few toes of water and nonetheless have sufficient of a bandwidth that with just a little little bit of fancy software program engineering and firmware, and perhaps some onboard picture processing that the Venn diagram begins to have some over.
In order that that’s type of the place we’re proper now.
Abate De Mey: After which that is importing video information over that bandwidth.
Torrey Smith: That’s proper. And you recognize, I’ve a, I’ve a public YouTube channel the place we simply put movies of us testing, swallowing our fish tank movies. You may see the, you recognize, the, the airplane video or, you recognize, we put the nostril down.
We’re, we’re making an attempt to be open with our journey as a result of look, human lives are fascinating. Proper. And once we begin to deal with thousands and thousands of sufferers, issues get bizarre. Proper. And I really feel that it’s critically essential for us to inform the world that look, we’re doing the whole lot we are able to to attempt to create one thing new and superior and good that helps folks and is healthier than the outdated approach.
And we’re prepared to share our journey as we do it. Trigger I simply need folks to know that. We’re basically obsessed with this, this we’re right here as a result of we’ve misplaced members of the family ourselves. We aren’t right here to revenue. You’re off of your sickness. We’re really right here to attempt to make it less expensive for you.
Proper. And, and I really feel just like the, by being open about that you recognize, that’s, that’s the start of that dialog and that’s a protracted dialog that, that belief will take years to construct. Proper. And, and, and will take weeks to do. Proper. So we’re, we’re dedicated to the lengthy haul. However to type of reply your query, you recognize, you touched on what sort of video high quality.
Oh my goodness. In the event you take a look at my video high quality proper now, it’s, it’s horrible. It’s nearly like snicker you out of the room. Horrible. Once we did our first in-human checks again in June of 2020 on that sofa behind me we had a 48 by 48 grid of grey scale pixels. Proper now we’re as much as 160 by 160 with shade.
Proper now we’re pushing about 5 frames per second, which for anybody that does like on-line gaming 5 FPS is like, you you’d go insane if you happen to had been making an attempt to play a web based sport with that body charge. Proper. Proper now we’ve got a fundamental Huffman compression algorithm going, which simply means like a really small quantity of compression.
We haven’t even achieved like JPEG ranges of compression. You may type of consider us as slinging. By way of a really small pipeline of, of bandwidth. However welcome to our on a regular basis world. , these are the issues that we’re chewing on and getting our butts kicked on daily. One of many causes we’re excited to succeed in out immediately and share just a little little bit of the journey is that, you recognize, we’re really on the lookout for passionate software program engineers for those who write embedded firmware of their, of their sleep.
, we’re on the lookout for folks that may take an SPGA and get into Verilog or, or one of many different applications. And, you recognize, code code a compression algorithm, not utilizing drag and drop modules if another person program. However I wish to see somebody that claims, I can write a JPEG compression algorithm on a SPGA in a single tenth of the reminiscence than anybody else that’s going to impress me.
Proper. We’re not on the lookout for the individual that says, yeah, I’ll, I’ll simply drag and drop different modules. Different folks have achieved and hand that to you. Come on. Let’s have some self-respect right here. Like we want passionate folks, people who find themselves simply as passionate as we’re to make this factor actual. And we do swallow these robots ourselves.
, we’re very obsessed with this.
Abate De Mey: Is that the onboarding problem,
Torrey Smith: you recognize, truthfully early in an organization, I’d say the principles are in all probability just a little bit extra. I believe like proper now we’ve not too long ago begun talks. We imagine we’ve got a lead investor for, for our seed spherical. So we’re, we’re very excited to maneuver from the angel section to the enterprise capital backed section.
Now we have, we’ve got a couple of superior VCs which can be backed us by the best way, Lantana bio mushy in Mexico. We flew down and pitched them in Spanish and and made good associates they usually put cash into our angel spherical they usually wish to be part of our seed spherical loyal VC out of Canada. That that’s our arrange.
Truly, these are our largest traders. After which you recognize, one other BC going BC Scout’s put just a little bit of cash into us, however the remainder is principally about 50% of it as angel traders. However that that’s a part of the journey although, is developing with an thought compelling sufficient, you recognize, to get you right into a room.
However then real looking sufficient to, to, to make writing a test is sensible that that’s not going to be trivial for anybody.
Abate De Mey: Yeah. And so earlier you confirmed the development of your prototypes the place the primary one appears one thing like a shoe sized. Yeah. There it’s. It’s like a shoe sized prototype.
Torrey Smith: You see the little propellers in there, proper?
Yeah. I see them. It’s a quad copter, proper. That offers you the flexibility to go ahead and again. To have the ability to flip or, you recognize, or pitch up and pitch down. Apparently sufficient, we are able to additionally rotate on entry actually quick utilizing the propulsion, which we predict goes to be fascinating for tissue excision, proper.
For, for tissue sampling. Th that’s the enjoyable half is we mentioned, we wish to transfer freely in a fluid quantity with no {qualifications}. This isn’t a ahead backward sport. That is, that is like, give me that Oculus. Okay. I’m within the affected person. What if you happen to’re not the physician, proper? What if you happen to’re the affected person or what if you happen to’re, you recognize, a member of the family or another person we’ll placed on some AR goggles and see a glowing hologram of the affected person’s anatomy inside their physique in actual time?
Proper? That is the stuff that we’re going to be unlocking, you recognize, hopefully over the following 6, 12, 18 months. It’s simply tremendous thrilling. Actually, I, that is essentially the most enjoyable I’ve ever had engaged on.
Abate De Mey: Oh, yeah. And it’s fascinating to speak about, is there a battery and an IMU in there additionally like what’s occurring?
Torrey Smith: Yeah. So, so for these of, I suppose, most individuals on robotics podcasts are gonna know inertial, inertial sensing, proper. Proper now we’re utilizing an off the shelf coin cell battery. It is a lithium ion battery rechargeable liquid electrolyte. The explanation we’re utilizing this proper now for our prototypes.
It’s primarily simply that of all of the batteries we might discover off the shelf and available. This was the one one which in any sense, approached the shape issue of a capsule digital camera and will deal with driving for electrical motors at their, at their most RPM. Like we, we put a really heavy present demand on our battery.
Our subsequent step utilizing a few of the cash we’re elevating. Is to go to a customized battery as a result of for us, we don’t want rechargeability and we’d actually don’t must be concerned on this planet of like rising dendrites and, you recognize, ever like puffing up a cell after you’ve used it too many instances or no matter, we solely want this factor to work, however work properly for 10, 15, 20.
Okay. So our battery chemistry might be going to be the only use, lithium main cell chemistry. In all probability so much like an Energizer escort, lithium battery. I’ve really used these in earlier medical gadgets and by no means had an issue with them. So yeah, off the shelf battery proper now it’s off the shelf chips, proper?
So if you happen to take a look at the, if you happen to take a look at the elements which can be populating this, this versatile. The digital camera’s from OmniVision. I believe that prices like 70 cents. We acquired an PGA, we’ve acquired just a little CC, 13, 10 microcontroller and radio combo. I imply, it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a really humble first product, however imagine me, and I’ll be candid right here.
Look, I mentioned earlier within the, within the, in, in, in our little assembly that, you recognize, I suffered. Imposter syndrome like anybody else? I’m not a PhD. I don’t have a level in electrical engineering, pc engineering. I’m a knucklehead. I’m a mechanical designer, used to name myself an aerospace engineer. So who do I believe I’m making an attempt to discovered this firm?
I’ll inform you what, after I go up and down Silicon valley, I see much more folks, so much smarter than myself, promoting adverts on the.
Or doing type of, not precisely swinging for the fences, with the {hardware} there they’re constructing or the markets that they’re serving. Proper. , I see a whole lot of cheap enterprise propositions, however the majority of sensible folks I do know are trapped with golden handcuffs, promoting adverts on the web, or type of enabling shopper merchandise that don’t really want to.
And it’s not my place to guage, however I’ll inform you that I refuse to be ashamed that I’m not excellent as a result of I do suppose that the perfect we’re engaged on and the world, we are able to unlock this new customary of care. I believe that’s worthy of sacrifice. Proper. So I began throw myself onto that fireplace and I’m hoping.
That by swallowing these robots ourselves, and by slowly successful over the easiest medical doctors on this planet. We’ve acquired the chief of GI at Mayo clinic, primary, gastroenterologist on this planet. I’m answering to him now trigger we requested him to affix our board of administrators. Proper. He’s my boss, primarily. We’re asking folks to assist us make this.
Proper. And so w we don’t wish to, we don’t wish to brush that beneath the rug. I would like, I wish to take my limitations personally, and our limitations as an organization, and truly wave them round, you recognize, let’s, let’s put that on our flag and this wave it round and say, Hey, we’re not excellent, however we see a chance to do issues approach higher.
We do have the flexibility as a result of we’re fairly scrappy. We’re very artistic and dealing. We predict that what we’re holding in our hand proper now’s a know-how demonstrator worthy of luring within the best minds from Silicon valley and past from approach past, proper. To do one thing really particular, you recognize, that’s, to me, that’s what antibiotics means to me.
That’s my honest hope. It’s type of like my prayer to the mental neighborhood. Please come assist us do one thing profoundly significant. Proper. That’s how I’d like to border it.
Abate De Mey: And the potential impression of this product is it’s huge. And the, the mission assertion can be is that it’s undoubtedly very admirable.
Torrey Smith: We’ll inform you what it’s founding is rarely going to be a trivial journey. Proper. , alongside the best way, we now are on our second CTO, who we’re extremely proud to have our first CTO. We moved over to the advisory board. Dan. Simply, palms down with essentially the most sensible folks I’ve ever met. It’s simply satisfied he must get a PhD over from WPI.
So he’s again simply joined the PhD program and earlier than he left and as soon as we signed the lease settlement with the, my firm would lease his home. So we, you recognize, we’re, we’re persevering with our scrappy or scrappy journey for now. We determined to tape $2 to the wall. Trigger I challenged him to a $1 wager, which is.
We’re going to IPO and the Audix earlier than he will get that PhD. And that’s a, that’s a enjoyable problem between expensive associates, proper. And that’s, that’s the type of dedication we’ve got to this imaginative and prescient is that look, if we had some superior exit alternative, that actually made sense for lots of various events. I’m, I’m, I’m all for it.
That’s nice. However our P our plan and our path and our dream takes us via. By way of capsule surgeon via micro surgeon, proper? It takes us from a storage to a warehouse, to the Mayo clinic, cadaver lab, the place we’ve got been and hopefully quickly to just a little constructing over by our native Costco to, we are able to put the optics on the entrance finish.
From there, it’ll go to a much bigger constructing. , we’re going to construct these right here. , it is a very small machine. , retails for a pretty big sum of money. And so it’s applicable to fabricate regionally. , it’s not like an workplace chair that wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense, however this does, we’re very severe about constructing this factor and making it actual.
And simply chewing on these troublesome moments. Step-by-step as a result of, you recognize, with out adversity, nothing actually tastes good once you lastly have that.
Abate De Mey: And so proper now, you’re sitting there with a fairly, fairly nice prototype in your palms. It’s very useful. It really could be swallowed and it really can reveal seemingly the total capabilities of what you must do.
Possibly barring some okay. Video charge and like some software program enhancements and perhaps miniature, rising a bit additional. However what are the following steps earlier than you’re really capable of drop this available on the market and begin producing that cash after which being. To speed up the enterprise,
Torrey Smith: however I can inform you one factor.
We predict that the bodily measurement let me, let me go right here. Let’s see what to acquired a superb zero shift over to metric as a result of we’re making an attempt to be civilized immediately. So I gonna measure this Odie proper now. So I’m, I’m approaching simply over 13 millimeters. Nearly 50 caliber. And if we take a look at a PillCam, you recognize, a typical PillCam.
No, that’s about 11.3, you recognize, so we’re, we’re just a little bit fatter than a capsule digital camera. Let me see right here. Yeah. It’s about 26 millimeters lengthy. We’re, we’re just a little fatter than most capsule cameras. We’re really shorter than a few of them. So we really really feel that we’ve got an MVP on this type issue if we select.
The explanation for that’s which you can get. PillCam arbitrarily small and you’ll all the time have a fraction of your sufferers who refuse this pockets. We simply don’t really feel comfy. Proper. , lots of people have points with capsules. Some folks is likely to be just a little irked about electronics, which is an affordable factor.
We don’t want one hundred percent of individuals to have the ability to swallow this. So I don’t have to drive it down to at least one tenth of its measurement to perform that. If half of the individuals who see this refuse to. However we create a software that a physician can attain for half of the time. That’s a 25% use case, which is 25 instances the market share at pillbox based mostly on the uncanny valley had fallen into.
So the enjoyable factor about being a CEO, even when let’s be trustworthy, I’m a lowercase CEO is I get to decide on the place the goalpost is. Proper? And so our purpose is to not make the final word. However to make the primary product rapidly that may really go do a superb job and disrupt a market and basically transfer the transfer the ball ahead.
So we predict that capsule bot goes to be that MVP. So the cash we’re elevating proper now helps us make. Primarily the identical fundamental measurement and form, however work within the methods the place this doesn’t fairly work properly sufficient. I would like some optics. I wish to put a fish eye lens. I would like some filters. I’ve acquired a bunch of optical Hayes and glare to take care of.
I would like impartial buoyancy, which we predict if we strip the metallic out of this case and go along with like a polymer case, single use battery, I believe that that’s that’s concerning the Delta we’re on the lookout for. Proper? So the purpose is. Shut the cash we’ve got on the desk. Hopefully do this earlier than Christmas. After which go forward and over the following six to 9.
Flip this into an actual MVP, flip this right into a product that does a job each single time. And meaning I don’t need a blue display of dying. Okay. I would like it to pair. I would like it to have a dependable connection. I would like the optical high quality to be first rate and I needed to do with the physician asset to will we’re going to show that it really works utilizing what you name IRB or institutional overview board trials.
That is the place you do a handful of sufferers right here in. Possibly over a couple of months, it provides as much as like 25 sufferers, one thing like that, some inside the U S perhaps some outdoors of the us, some wholesome distribution. We proved that it really works to ourselves utilizing IRB trials. After which we start FDA trial. And proper now our regulatory consultants are saying, they suppose it’s going to be one thing on the order of a couple of hundred sufferers at a few medical websites around the globe to, to show that this factor is prepared for the U S.
So my purpose is initially, you recognize, I I’m like basic Elon Musk time. Proper. , I I’m approach too formidable. And I usually see my numbers, my numbers slip I’m responsible of that. However my purpose is to be promoting this factor within the U S market someday in 2023, in all probability in all probability near the tip, to be trustworthy.
Abate De Mey: Superior. Nicely, Torrey. Thanks a lot for talking with us immediately.
Torrey Smith: It’s an actual pleasure, and we’re so grateful to affix this neighborhood and, and likewise have the ability to learn to profit from it ourselves. Proper? Trigger the, the folks in your podcast are superb. The tales are superb and, you recognize, frankly, we’re all fascinated by what’s happening and that’s all for immediately.
——————–transcript——————-tags: c-Well being-Medication, cx-Well being-Medication, Micro, podcast, Prototype, Robotics know-how, Sensing, Service Skilled Medical Different, startup
Abate De Mey
Robotics and Go-To-Market Chief
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